Comparing my DL650 and KLV1000

[Si]

This is the first part of the report I lost yesterday.

INTRODUCTION

This is an attempt at comparing my 650 and 1000 bike. I have owned the DL650K4 from new for just over a year and have done 14000 miles. I have only had the KLV1000K4 for about 5 weeks and done about 2000 miles. This bike was 15 months old when I bought it second hand, with just over 1600 miles on the clock.

I hope the references to the KLV1000K4 will be relevant to the DL1000 too in most cases. Where I know the issues is Kawasaki specific, I will try to identify this.

I should also stress this report is based on my personal experience with my individual bikes. I have tried to be as objective as possible. Clearly others riders on different bikes may come to entirely different views.

I apologise in advance if I have made any mistakes with the technical terms used. As most of you know, this is not my area of expertise. My usual job on the forum is to keep the chit chat ticking over!!!!

APPEARANCE

Obviously there are immediate striking differences in colour of the tanks and fairing, frames and side panels. These can easily be seen in the photos and will not be dwelt on.



Almost as obvious is the twin exhausts  offered by the 1000. The single exhaust on the 650 did not bother me initially until I started group riding with other UK and European members and noticed just how much more complete the 1000 looks compared to the 650 which now always looks like something is missing. This unbalanced set up also affects the choice of luggage racks available I believe. The deep roaring sound from the twin 1000 exhausts is much more impressive too.





The windscreens  and headlights  are identical on both bikes, although there is a KLV specific silver nose bar that does not appear on either of the DLs. The black plastic around the headlights (and in fact on front mudguard too) is matt on the KLV compared to gloss black on the DLs.





The instrument panel  on the 1000 are surrounding with a chrome effect finish, but are left black on the 650. The backlighting is green on the Kawasaki but orange on the DLs. The triple clamp  is a slightly difference shape (as evidenced by SpeedStar's protectors which come in one piece for the 1000 but three separate pieces for the 650). For some reason there is a chrome nut on top of the steering headstock  on the 650, which is not provided with the 1000 (I actually thought mine was missing at first until Peter Kroll explained they were all like this).





The 1000 also offers a belly pan  which looks complete and helps to protect the oil cooler radiator which is exposed more on the 650. I added a fenda extender to the 650 as I kept hearing worrying pinking sounds as small stones where thrown up against the oil cooler. The belly pan means this is not really needed on the 1000.

The end of the swinging arms  looks simpler on the 650.



Finally, the passenger footpegs  are made from properly cast alloy on the 1000 and look like they belong. The tubular steel efforts on the 650 look like a cheap after-thought.

PERFORMANCE

Both bikes accelerate  very well IMHO (I have never ridden any real sports bikes for comparison) and there is little to separate them over 0-50mph, but as you roll on from 50-80+ the extra power of the 1000 becomes apparent very quickly. By 100mph the 650 is running out of instant acceleration in response to throttle demands, whereas the 1000 keeps on pulling way past this.

I have had the 650 up to an indicated top speed  of 120mph. It was able to sustain this for several miles rather than just a quick blip, but I could not get it to go any faster. With luggage anything over 110 on the 650 cause a disturbing weave. So far I have only had to chance to take the 1000 up to 115mph but it definitely felt like it was happy to keep going well past 120mph. I confidently expect it to achieve well over 130mph.

The extra torque of the 1000 is especially noticeable when riding at higher speeds (on the motorway) / up hills / with a pillion and luggage. It just does not seem to feel these challenges at all. The 650 by comparison feels to 'struggle' (by comparison) just a little in these circumstances, although it can cope easily when required to do so (if necessary with a downshift to 5th)

However, the lower gearing and smoother FI at lower revs, means the 650 is much easier to ride at slower speeds. The 1000 almost gives the impression you’re insulting it by trying to ride slowly: it is much happier at 50mph+.

The 1000 offers much more engine braking  than the 650. I used to think the 650 offered a lot of engine braking compared to the in-line twins and fours I trained on, but by comparison the 1000 feels like you’ve thrown an anchor out of the back. Now I have got used to the extra engine braking on the 1000, I sometimes catch myself out when it is not available to the same extent on the 650 (which means I have to use more brakes to compensate). The 1000 gives be a lot of confidence when descending very steep hills. In 1st gear, it just holds you at an ideal safe speed. Riding the 650 in the same circumstances, I find the revs climb to high in 1st gear and the bike runs away faster than I need in 2nd.

In adverse weather  conditions, I prefer the 650 in the wet because of its easier handling, but the 1000 definitely feels somewhat less susceptible to crosswinds.

My average overall fuel consumption  on both bikes has been approx 48 mpg on the DL650 and only 43 mpg on the 1000. This came as a disappointment to me as Robin Hood tends to use less fuel on his 1000 than I do my 650.

[Si]

Continued...



HANDLING/CONTROL

I find the cable clutch  on the 650 much easier to use than the hydraulic clutches on the 1000 (not just on my KLV1000, but Robin Hood’s DL1000K4 and Robert's DL1000K2). For me, the easier operation means I am slightly quicker at pulling away from traffic lights, find filtering and other slow speed control is easier, and I am happy to sit with the clutch held in, in first gear at junctions. In contrast, the 1000 clutch makes my hand ache after a while so I tend to stop in neutral and engage first gear when its time to go.

Gear  changing is smoother on the 650, but the ratios are very close. I tend to do about 30mph in first, 50 in 2nd, up to 70 in 3rd and up to 100 in 4th, BUT the bike is happy in 6th gear from 50mph onwards and above this speed you rarely need to change down from 6th. 5th and 6th feel quite close and I often wish for an extra, higher gear and find myself trying to change up from 6th. The absence of an O/D indicator is not helpful here. At 7000 rpm my bike runs at about 95mph in top. I really like 4th gear on the 650 as the revs match the speed (i.e. 5000 rpm = 50 mph) and with care you can use this gear from below 30 to above 100. I find this gear ideal to use when riding fast on the twisty roads.

On the 1000, changing from 1st to 2nd is often very clunky. The bike is happy to pull to 40mph is 1st, 70mph in 2nd and  approaching100 in 3rd. When I get in 4th I feel like I am in top gear (on the 650) and am always surprised I have two more gears to go. On the other hand, I find I need to change down out of top gear when slowing down below 60-65mph. The bike cruises in 6th at 100mph just above 5K revs. Due to the infamous 2500-3500 stutter/shudder, I find the bike hard to ride slowly without slipping the clutch. (I have not had chance to see if this can be improved with Yosh box treatment or a PowerCommander yet ).

I am not sure if the brake  components are the same on both bikes – they look the same – but the 1000 seems to pull up under hard braking a bit better than the 650. I think this is because the front suspension  is more sophisticated? At the rear end, the braking and suspension feels the same to me on both bikes.

FEATURES

The helmet lock , which comes with the 1000 as standard, is very useful. The silly piece of wire that they provide with the 650 is totally useless!

I think the side stand  feels sturdier on the 650 strangely. It certainly has a bigger footprint which means it is less likely to sink into the ground.

As mentioned above, the 650 really misses an O/D light  to indicate you are in top gear.

Not sure where this bit fits, but the 650 always runs with 3 bars showing on the temperature gauge.  The 1000 only shows two when moving at reasonable speeds, but moves up to three when stop/starting. The cooling fan  seems to come on more often on the 1000 and it kicks out an uncomfortable amount of heat from the engine  when stuck in queues.

RIDING IN DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS

Please don't misunderstand my report in this section. Both bikes are great and can to all these things highly satisfactorily. If I praise one bike above the other because it stands out in specific circumstances, is not meant to imply the other bike is bad in any way.  



I spend a lot of time commuting  in heavy traffic and the 650 is the bike I choose for this. It's lighter and more flickable and easier to control with the more suitable clutch/gearing at very low speeds.

I do not ride a lot off-road  (by choice) but do need to use a farm track to get to my motorhome storage. Also, the car parks I use for work are often unmade. In both these cases, the lighter weight and easier clutch mean I prefer the 650.

I am still getting used to cornering  on the 1000, but my impression at this point is the 650 is easier to tilt into tighter corners, and the smoother gearing below 50mph mean it is easier to set the bike and stay on line. Its still early days for me though on the 1000 so probably not fair to judge at this stage. Readers should also be aware that my 650 has Michelin Pilot Road tyres on now and the 1000 is still running the stock Trailwings, so that makes a difference too. However, the DL650 did win the Alpsmaster title didn’t it, so it might not be just me that rates in slightly more highly in the tight stuff?

On open-road  and motorways,  the extra power of the 1000 is great. I don’t tend to ride any faster but knowing you have bucketfuls of instant power when you 'pour on the coals' is very reassuring indeed. I never complained before about the lack of power for overtaking with the 650, but the extra power when you need it makes the 1000 shines at these speeds.

The extra power also mean the 1000 wins easily for 2-up touring.

CONCLUSION

I love both these bikes in different ways and asking me to choose which is best would be like asking me which of my children I love the most. I am in a very lucky position to have both bikes and honestly could not decide which one I would keep if I had to ditch one. I prefer whichever one I am riding at the time (unless its really in its wrong environment e.g. the 1000 in very heavy traffic).

I am certainly glad I chose the 650 as my first big bike. The 1000 is not really as newbie-friendly.   Some people argue the cheaper 650 price offers better value for money  overall, and I am inclined to agree with them if budget is a problem.
But just because you might be able to afford the extra for 1000, does not mean you should go for this automatically without trying the 650.

Of course the only real solution is to buy one of each   – just sell your granny / car / wife / boat / kids* (delete as appropriate).  That way you get the best of both worlds and you always have a bike to loan your international friends that come to visit!

Trust me on this: there’s nothing like the feelings of going and thinking which bike should I choose today?



  (very smug, I know!!!   )

And then returning home and getting that rush of excitement when you spot another 'Strom' parked on your drive – every single day!!!!

I hope this (belated) report is helpful and interesting. Please feel free to suggest other areas where I can compare the two bikes.  

[ib]

Nice. If you'll allow me, I can solve all your problems with 1000 in lower revs soon. I even can't remember how it looks like )))

Agree with your review. DL650 is lighter and more flickable, for sure. I like this bike very much. Went for 1000 because of sound. I pay a lot for sound

[Si]

Quote:

ib wrote on 02.11.2005 09:43[/i] Nice. If you'll allow me, I can solve all your problems with 1000 in lower revs soon.

Great! I can't wait. Thanks Ibu

[Peter]

Simon I agree with you on the city traffic section, and I feel for you of course. Being a motorcycle commuter myself, the 1000 is sometimes a bit of a handful riding in a city of 4.3 million. At the other hand, it is much more suitable for my commuting than 95% of the other 1000 cc bikes. And for someone who wants not to have more than one bike, this one does it - PLUS touring sovereign (right expression?). Yes, it is complaining on high level - as you pointed out.

You did very well show the differences, in particular for someone having a license since how long only - a good year? ... and this will be a great help for everyone considering this or that flavour of the Strom. Thanks for going through the hassle writing this up! With your kind permission, I will use the link later on a redesigned portal page.

BTW. You did smart to choose the 650 as your first bike.

[SpeedStar]

Great report on the pros/cons of each bike and it will surely help someone on the fence between the two.  Thanks for taking such care and detail Simon.

[DRxDR]

Good comparison report Simon.  Your "apologise in advance" statement is oh so familiar to me, since I hear it from my good friend just as we open the Tequilla botttle.  

[Anonymous]

Great report Simon my friend! Thank you!

On the other hand I'd like to smack you, cause I want a thou as well now.

[Sandiegoland]

As one who garages both models, your report is spot on from someone whose V-Strom journey began on a DL650. I think someone who started on a DL1000 might have a slightly different impression (but how would I know for sure?).

I would only add regarding the brakes, that all things equal, the back will brake into a skid a lot easier on the 1000. In over 12,000 miles, I have only really locked the DL650 one good time; the DL1000 more than several times when practicing emergency braking within the first 1000 miles. I'm sure it's just a weight thing, nothing particular to the DL's.

[Si]

Thanks Sandy...

I am glad you agree with my report - makes me feel good about about judgement

I wonder what JDPower thinks? Are there any others with both bikes (or members who owned one and traded up/down to the other?)

[Anonymous]

Very nice and detailed report imho.  I have never found something like this in an official motorcycle magazine and really appreciate it. I really got some insights and news.
The 650 (Alpsmaster) might honestly be the better bike in the sum of all atributes.  
But I am potentially dyslexic and a redneck and just love to accellerate on straight roads like a dragster pilot way over the speedlimit so there is never a way to downgrade from the liter.

Toaddie

[Si]

Quote:

Toaddie wrote on 02.11.2005 19:54[/i] The 650 (Alpsmaster) might honestly be the better bike in the sum of all atributes.

Maybe, but its too close to call. The bikes are different but equal overall in my view. The 650 should certainly be the choice for new riders though.

[FemIce]

Reading this thread makes me happy I choose my 650  

-FemIceLovesConfirmationsOfHerRightChoices-

[Si]

Quote:

Peter wrote on 02.11.2005 10:18[/i] With your kind permission, I will use the link later on a redesigned portal page. .

Sorry I missed this part Peter. Of course you can use my report in any way that helps.

[EnglishColin]

Nice report Simon. I sometimes wish I could write good stuff like that on here.

I'd like to make a couple of comments if I may but must make it clear that I have never owned a DL650 (although it would be nice to have one of each) so these are not comments on comparisson. Just some observations on the comments on the DL1000.

First of all I have to say your "less enlightened" neighbours must be wondering why you have two bikes the same (albeit in different colours)

Exhausts. I favour the twin exhaust look. If only to balance up the back end. I may be showing my ignorance here but can anyone tell me why the DL650 couldn't be rigged up with "twins"?

You mentioned that the 650 has green backlighting and the 1000 orange. Does the green make the dials any easier to read in the dark? If so, do you or anyone else know if it is easy to swap from orange to green?

Re your performance comment about getting the 1000 up to 115mph but felt it would be happy going past the 120mph mark. I've had mine up to 137mph (in the right and safe conditions) if that's any consolation.

I think tyre choice is a big factor in slow speed handling/stability. I've noticed a BIG difference between my new BT020's and my old Tourances. With the 020's I find my slow speed handling and balance is a lot better than when I was running on the Tourances.

As far as the commuting goes (and don't forget I have never ridden a DL650) I find the 1000 very easy to handle in traffic. Maybe it's something to do with rider height/size? I often ride with a (heavy) pillion through London and have never had any greater problem on the Strom than I did on my old 600 Transalp. I find the 1000 very easy to get through the congestion that is London. I'd go as far as to say it's fun.

And finally, "pouring on the coals". Never ever had a problem with that. This bike has never let me down in that respect.

All said and done, the DL1000 is one great ride (this is coming from someone who has never ridden and has no interest in sportsbikes). The way I see it the DL650 is (as stated on this site) also a great ride. Only in a smaller package.

Long live the Strom.

[drewgg]

WOW, wot more can be added to this one? Great input folks, I just wish I'd have seen this one before I bought the 1k? Although I love my KLV to bits and can't see me parting with it any time soon. (Love that smilie as well, it just suits me to a tee?)

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Just ordered my third DL, a Vee K7/8 GT.

My first was a K2 DL1000.  My first impression was a very buffety reasonably good handler with a very bouncy rear shock.  My first mod was to ditch the very weak 8kg spring and install a 12kg spring (which was down on the 14kg Ohlins item fitted to my Aprilia Mille).  This transformed the ride and when eventually matched with front Ohlins springs and dropped 15mm forks gave me a really good handler.  Chudder made me get a new clutch basket under warranty and titanium Scorpians smoothed the engine.

This bike always had a rough motor and excessive engine breaking but boy did it shift.  I never had a problem with traffic or keeping up with sports bikes.  I often would come up to flash Harry's on sports litre bikes, particulary on Salisbury Plain GB who could not see round corners and I could murder them through the bends with extra vision the strom gave me.  Some of them would ride so slowly round the bends and then gas it down the straights, it would drive me round the bend!!!

This setup was great and better than a 800 non VTEC VFR I owned.

I lived with the engine and the buffeting (I never replaced the screen at all - not worth it!)

Finish was OK - no worse than Honda or Yamaha and better than BMW (I have seen some some shocking corrosion on Beemers!).  Trick is to fit a fender extender and wash off the salt - and use scottoil 365 concentrate.  I also used a scottoiler - not great will explain later.

Anyway, got bored with this bike and decided to give up biking for a while.  This lasted about 6 weeks!

As I was mostly commuting with the DL I figured its replacement could be the smaller more nimble 650 Wee.  I still had the Zuk Gel seat so my seating position would be the same.  And the fact that the frame, wheels, brakes etc are the same gave me confidence in the product.

Bought Wee in April 2007.  First and lasting impression is great.  The suspension on the Wee is much better than the K2 Vee.  Properly sprung; this just needed pre-loading the rear spring quite a bit and the handling was as good as my modified K2 Vee!!!  It steered as good and I didn't need to drop the bike through the forks.  

Brakes, Motor, Clutch are better than my Vee.  Brakes don't need the braided lines that I fitted to the Vee; the engine is smooth and eager and the clutch is more progressive.  

Gearbox is not so good and needs a good kick in 5th and 6th or you can get a box full of false neutrals.  Now better with Red Castrol Oil.  Front fork can be a little clanky over bumps as well, although generally feels smooth on the road.

Finish is fine and hasn't corroded at all in a year of riding (albeit not much in rain or salt) and I haven't fitted the dreaded oiler.  Reason?  Over oiling!  The best bit about the scotty isn't the auto lubber but the oil itself.  Save money and lub the chain yourself with Scottoil, I do this every other day and give the chain a good clean every fortnight.  You do need the centre stand for this - Start bike, run in first and run a line of scottoil on the chain, job done in seconds but be careful!  I know that long distances could be a problem though.  Clean up with WD40.  Result, never had to adjust the chain in 4,000 miles and it shines as new!

So the Wee has many good points but for me, a major weakness.  It can't handle two large adults two up that well.  Me, 6'2" and much the wrong side of 100kg and wife at 85kg means the bike struggles.  Also, the eagerness of the motor comes from the 650 lump and brilliant gearing from Suzuki, it is actually quite low geared so after you roar off going though the first 5 gears you look down to see you are still at 55mph!  And you are being buzzed by a Volkswagen Diesel!  It doesn't have the urge to gap cars and get you up the road quickly like the 1K did.  This, I found, was actually dangerous in a couple of scenarios and put me in a tricky situation that I couldn't accelerate away from.  

With the Vee, you know that it takes a blumming quick car to mess with you and on crowded UK roads, this is getting worse.

So 650 going next week.  I hope the K7 Vee is sorted with its suspension like the 650 and is smoother and I am looking forward to the low rev urge from the big motor.

I will miss the economy (49mpg) and low insurance (£120) of the 650 though.

Hope you find this useful.

Steve

[Robin Hood]

Quote:

Si wrote on 02.11.2005 07:18[/i] My average overall fuel consumption  on both bikes has been approx 48 mpg on the DL650 and only 43 mpg on the 1000. This came as a disappointment to me as Robin Hood tends to use less fuel on his 1000 than I do my 650.

You wont miss the fuel consumption, you just need to ride it differently....

The words ClutchMiester...Weeeeeee...spring to mind...

RH.

[ib]

Quote:

Robin Hood wrote on 19.04.2008 11:34[/i] You wont miss the fuel consumption, you just need to ride it differently.... The words ClutchMiester...Weeeeeee...spring to mind... RH.

                   

[Si]

It would be good to know how you get on with the new Strom Steve.

I am on my third one as well. (DL650K4, KLV1000K4, DL650ABS(T)K7)

Any advances on owning 3 Stroms?

[hotshoetom]

Hi Guys!  Great write up Si.

Those of you that know something about my history know I came to be a wee owner by accident...literally. I rode scooters before getting the wee, and it was absolutely the right choice. Learning to manage clutch and foot operated brakes took some getting used to. But now, a year later, and I am satisfied with the bike except for one very minor issue. The ability to continue to accelerate smartly at speeds above 90 mph is the only real achilles heel. I find I must plan my overtaking of slower vehicles to be sure there is enough room to complete the pass. This is especially true riding two up. I weigh 265 and wife 170, so passing takes a little more time than it would on a 1k. The lack of acceleration at super-normal speeds is not an issue 99% of the time. I seldom cruise at speeds over 70-75, and when riding two up tend to be more conservative in my riding approach than I am when riding alone. Two up, I tend to ride down a gear from what I do when riding alone. 6th becomes an overdrive only. To really accelerate hard two up you have to be willing to rev the engine well up the rev range.
Do I consider the wee's shortcomings sufficient excuse to buy a Vee? Nope...just isn't worth the extra money for the bike, the insurance, the fuel, the shorter tire life...as it is the wee actually saves me some money. Having a motorcycle habit that can save you money is a good thing. I don't need any additional drains on the personal finances. There are already too many places to put too few dollars. Yeah, I know, I am cheap sombiotch. 

Hotshoetom

PS- This year's performance improvement is losing weight. Down 15 lbs and still dropping!!