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Author Topic: Throttle Body Sync, why did I wait so long?  (Read 16853 times)
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Strom Stevo
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08/14/05 0205 Hours
Posts: 40
Seatac Wa USA
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« on: 05/22/06 0131 Hours »
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With 1600 miles on the speedo, I went ahead and did my first TBS on my DL650. From day one I felt it was off, as soon as I would transition from closed throttle up in certain situations it would faulter/hesitate  Embarrassed
I thought it might be doing this because it was new? Anyway, I can now let my 650 get well below 3000 RPM in any given gear, even with a load, without any drama or bucking   Cool
If you think your bike has a bit too much herky jerk or does not like running smoothly at lower RPM's without complaining, you probably need to do a TBS, mine WAS off from day one  Wheely

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yiannis
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10/19/03 2105 Hours
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Seattle, WA
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« REPLY #1 on: 05/22/06 0137 Hours »
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What he said.

By the way, at least in the 1000, you don't have to remove anything besides the two L-shaped black pieces to reach the "nipples". With a good flashlight , small hands , a set of long nose pliers and some patience you can attach the extensions, rear one from the right side and front one from the left.
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Anonymous
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« REPLY #2 on: 05/22/06 0210 Hours »
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Yeah, I propped the tank up on my 1000.  It just provided light I think.  

Do the synch...they are probably off.
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Anonymous
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« REPLY #3 on: 05/22/06 0226 Hours »
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Someone help me out here.  After several searches and reading the manual, I still am not sure.  Does someone have a good picture of the adjustment screw's location on the 1000?
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Strom Stevo
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08/14/05 0205 Hours
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Seatac Wa USA
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« REPLY #4 on: 05/22/06 0319 Hours »
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Quote:

kurt1305 wrote on 21.05.2006 18:26[/i]
Someone help me out here.  After several searches and reading the manual, I still am not sure.  Does someone have a good picture of the adjustment screw's location on the 1000?



Im not sure about the Liter Strom, but here is the location of the screw on the Wee Strom...you don't even need a screw driver, I was able to turn it with my hand  Cool

Also note the black extention hose that I added to the vacuum ports on the TB's, so next time it will be super cake Wink

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yiannis
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10/19/03 2105 Hours
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Seattle, WA
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« REPLY #5 on: 05/22/06 0519 Hours »
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Just make sure you're turning the one that's vertical, not the similar one that's at 45'(or so) degrees angle .
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Elvis
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09/17/04 1938 Hours
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Germany (sachsen)
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« REPLY #6 on: 05/22/06 1340 Hours »
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What is the diameter of the hose needed for the extension ?
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Strom Stevo
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08/14/05 0205 Hours
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Seatac Wa USA
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« REPLY #7 on: 05/22/06 1504 Hours »
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Quote:

Elvis wrote on 22.05.2006 05:40[/i]
What is the diameter of the hose needed for the extension ?



Its the same stuff you would use for the vacuum advance on a car, its 1/8 ID if I am not mistaken. Pull one of the plugs off your bike before you go to the auto store, pulling the vacuum plugs is the hardest part of the TBS anyway  Shocked

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Elvis
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09/17/04 1938 Hours
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Germany (sachsen)
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« REPLY #8 on: 05/22/06 1520 Hours »
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Quote:

Strom Stevo wrote on 22.05.2006 16:04[/i]

Quote:

Elvis wrote on 22.05.2006 05:40[/i]
What is the diameter of the hose needed for the extension ?



Its the same stuff you would use for the vacuum advance on a car, its 1/8 ID if I am not mistaken. Pull one of the plugs off your bike before you go to the auto store, pulling the vacuum plugs is the hardest part of the TBS anyway  Shocked




So 1/8 is Inch i guess? so it should be 4 mm tube?
i want to have all part ready before i start because i am
performing my maintenance on the street (Dresden city center)
still saving for a house until then this is what i have to live with Wink

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Whizmo
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« REPLY #9 on: 05/22/06 1638 Hours »
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I don't have small hands so I view it as highly unlikely I can get to the front cylinder port without removing the airbox, at least for the first time until I can run extension hoses.  Does anyone have a suggestion for getting to the screw for the front TB to airbox clamp?  I think it faces towards right side where it is blocked by the frame rail and it appeared to me my only hope was removiing the radiator.

- Mark
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03VSTROM
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03/28/04 2018 Hours
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Seattle, WA
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« REPLY #10 on: 05/22/06 2229 Hours »
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On the 1000, it is actually not too bad to reach the vacuum plug on the front throttle body from the left side of the bike.  Take off the L shaped black covers on both sides (this requires the removal of one screw on each side).  Get on the ground on the left side of the bike and look up to the front throttle body and you should see the plug.  You can grab it with long needle nose, or you can reach up there with your hand.  To attach the vacuum line extension, pinch the tubing between your right hand index and middle fingers about 2 inches from the end of the vacuum tubing.  Using a flashlight in your left hand, maneuver the tubing to the end of the vacuum nipple and push it on.  Once it is started, change your grip and push the tubing up flush with the throttle body.

Once you have the extensions on, it is an easy 5 minute job to check the syncronization and adjust it.   You just remove the L shaped covers, attach the sync tool, and then use long needlenose to adjust the vertical screw.  

I know this procedure, because I had to have warranty work done on my fuel injection and I had to remove the extension tubes before taking it in.  The shops will look for any reason to avoid warranty work and user installed vacuum tubing would be a red flag.  I replaced the tubes when I got the bike back from the shop.

Tom

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Strom Stevo
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08/14/05 0205 Hours
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Seatac Wa USA
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« REPLY #11 on: 05/23/06 0001 Hours »
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Quote:

Elvis wrote on 22.05.2006 07:20[/i]
So 1/8 is Inch i guess? so it should be 4 mm tube?
i want to have all part ready before i start because i am
performing my maintenance on the street (Dresden city center)
still saving for a house until then this is what i have to live with Wink




Here is the plug, the inside diameter is over 3mm but under 4mm, hope this helps....I forgot this place is world wide, aren't you surprised I even own a metric scale? Tongue

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Warren
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09/13/05 0106 Hours
Posts: 82
Alpine, CA
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« REPLY #12 on: 05/23/06 0030 Hours »
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Be sure to check your TPS adjustment as well... 2 out of the 5 I've helped with have been off at 600 miles...
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-- Warren in San Diego --
-- 2011 V-Strom 650 --


--Click Here For My Free V-Strom Valve Adjustment Shim Calculator --
Elvis
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09/17/04 1938 Hours
Posts: 321

Germany (sachsen)
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« REPLY #13 on: 05/23/06 0937 Hours »
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Quote:

Strom Stevo wrote on 23.05.2006 01:01[/i]

Quote:

Elvis wrote on 22.05.2006 07:20[/i]
So 1/8 is Inch i guess? so it should be 4 mm tube?
i want to have all part ready before i start because i am
performing my maintenance on the street (Dresden city center)
still saving for a house until then this is what i have to live with Wink




Here is the plug, the inside diameter is over 3mm but under 4mm, hope this helps....I forgot this place is world wide, aren't you surprised I even own a metric scale? Tongue



thanks
around here this will be 4 mm, this helps alot because i have 6 and 8 mm but not 4
so i will go buy some

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How will you count the insurance money if you are riding without gloves
Strom Stevo
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08/14/05 0205 Hours
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Seatac Wa USA
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« REPLY #14 on: 05/27/06 1625 Hours »
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UPDATE: TBS one week later...
I would like to add that with the new found smoothness of my TBS, the Enjoyment/FUN/Ride Ability factor of my Wee has gone through the roof. Not to mention that it even shifts smoother now, starting to remind me of the way my old GS750 use to shift!
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Anonymous
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« REPLY #15 on: 05/28/06 0529 Hours »
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I finally got a tool from my friend and did it today. First time at 7500 miles. I don't think that previuos owner ever did it. Wee was getting jerky at low speeds. It was about one inch difference. Synced it and went for a liitle spin on Grizzly peak/ Skyline. Much better behaviour in tight twisties.
Didn't take me long , about an hour.

EDIT: I USED MERCURY TOOL
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yiannis
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10/19/03 2105 Hours
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Seattle, WA
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« REPLY #16 on: 05/28/06 0531 Hours »
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1in in what ? was it a mercury tool ? if so, 1in is something. If it was an ATF homemade tool though, 1in is nothing, it wouldn't even register on a mercury tool.
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BBurton
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« REPLY #17 on: 05/28/06 1523 Hours »
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Dealerships use the mercury tools, and I use the mercury tools. That is what I am gonna stick with. If another fluid worked better, then why doesn't the manufacturers of the carb sticks, switch to something else?
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Peter
Candyman
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10/12/03 1453 Hours
Posts: 5688

DL1000K2 (sold)
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« REPLY #18 on: 05/28/06 1529 Hours »
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There are many ways to travel to Rome  Huh?
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Peter
PEOPLE WHO HAVE VISIONS SHOULD GO TO SEE THEIR DOCTOR
Anonymous
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« REPLY #19 on: 05/28/06 1809 Hours »
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Quote:

BBurton wrote on 28.05.2006 09:23[/i]
Dealerships use the mercury tools, and I use the mercury tools. That is what I am gonna stick with. If another fluid worked better, then why doesn't the manufacturers of the carb sticks, switch to something else?




Mercury is heavier therefore requires more force to move.  Less chance of being sucked into the engine,  less bouncing due to pressure pulses and the gauge can be shorter since the fluid travels less distance.

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BBurton
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« REPLY #20 on: 05/28/06 1920 Hours »
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Quote:

kurt1305 wrote on 28.05.2006 13:09[/i]

Quote:

BBurton wrote on 28.05.2006 09:23[/i]
Dealerships use the mercury tools, and I use the mercury tools. That is what I am gonna stick with. If another fluid worked better, then why doesn't the manufacturers of the carb sticks, switch to something else?




Mercury is heavier therefore requires more force to move.  Less chance of being sucked into the engine,  less bouncing due to pressure pulses and the gauge can be shorter since the fluid travels less distance.




Seems to me, that the level of "accuracy" would be better with the mercury? I was able to get both of my TB's  almost exactley even. From idle, clear up to about 5 grand. Maybe a clean airfilter, good plugs and properly adjusted TB's...is the reason why I get such great gas mileage? Huh?

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yiannis
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10/19/03 2105 Hours
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Seattle, WA
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« REPLY #21 on: 05/28/06 1929 Hours »
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The lighter the fluid, the more accurate it is, think about it. Reason the "official" tools are mercury based is that it allows the tools to be much smaller. And after a certain point you don't them to be that accurate. Bottom line is any type of tool does the same job, pick the one you like more.
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eakins
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« REPLY #22 on: 05/30/06 1956 Hours »
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really want to be dead on accurate?
ditch the old tech and move up to the new electronic stuff:
http://www.adventuremotogear.com/twinmax.mgi?mgiToken=691C2C16MJE3L1F129G
bmw boxer motors are notoriuos for needing an exact tbs and this tool works much more accurate than my old mercery tube.
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Anonymous
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« REPLY #23 on: 07/26/06 0135 Hours »
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Low Cost carb sync tool.
Made one and used it on my old 81 cb900 4cyl.
worked great, made bike run a whole lot beter.
Found this article at airheads.com  if i remember right.


$4 Carburetor Synchronizer
Hugh Kenny #6051, GrufRude@aol.com

 

Since joining the Airheads shortly after purchasing my first-ever Beemer in October of 2001, I've found the AirList to be an invaluable source of information and direct feedback as I learn my way around my new 1984 R100RS. One of the first things I do when acquainting myself with a new mount is a basic tune-up. Lurking on the Airlist provided a bunch of helpful tips to supplement (and correct) the tune-up info in the Haynes and Clymer manuals.

One of the slickest tune-up tips I came across was Tom Rowe's mention of a ridiculously cheap and easy-to-build differential manometer (vacuum gauge) for balancing carburetors on vacuum port equipped Boxers. I'd read about the Twin-Max (aprx. $80) and have used the $40 CarbStix on my 4-cylinder Hondas, but for less than $4, I was able to build a twin carb synchronizer that is 16 times more sensitive than my mercury vacuum gauges and can be assembled from common materials available at almost any hardware store. I built it and my R100RS loved it - it really smoothed out some bands of footpeg/bar/mirror vibration that the bike had, even after using the CarbStix.

I posted a 'Thank You' note for the idea on the AirList after I tried it and got even more valuable feedback from Jay Carpenter and a request from John "Beetle" Mailleue, ABC# 5657 to write a tech article for the AirMail. After spending some more time in the garage incorporating Jay Carpenter's ideas, I figured I'd go ahead and write-up a description of how to build and use the $4 Carb Synchronizer, because it REALLY works. Super cheap, super accurate, super easy to build and super easy to use - CLASSIC Airhead technology!

Credit for the original idea has to go to Marty Ignazito of the powered-parachute crowd, he came up with the idea to balance the twin Bings on a two-stroke Rotax and his original write-up is at www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp. If you try this idea and like it, send Marty a thank-you e-mail at mdipe@mcleodusa.net.

Here's the Materials List for the $4 Carb Synchronizer Tool:

    * 20 feet of clear plastic (vinyl) tubing - inside diameter big enough to slip on the vacuum nipple of your carb (3/16" i.d. worked for my bike, but it's tight, maybe 1/4" i.d. might be better). 15 cents per foot in the plumbing section at my local 'big box' hardware store, Sutherlands.
    * A yard stick - Home Depot sells an aluminum yardstick for under $2, but you can make a perfectly satisfactory gauge with a 3-foot piece of 1" wooden lathe for next-to-nothing. (For a 'professional'-looking gauge, I actually used a yellow aluminum 4-foot rule, but that was wretched excess at $5.)
    * 3M/Scotch/Whatever - clear mailing/packaging tape. You should have some of this left over from the Christmas mailing season; otherwise around a $1 a small roll (and you won't need much).
    * 2 short nylon zip-ties - You should have these in your garage. If not, buy them in bulk for cheap in the wiring section of Home Depot, Sutherlands, Ace Hardware, etc. - you'll use them and wonder why you didn't have them before.
    * A tiny amount of automatic transmission fluid - Actually, just about any fluid works, including used motor oil, colored water, 2-stroke oil, etc. I chose ATF because I already had a gallon of it and (most important) it is really thin and is RED (which looks WAY cool as the indicator fluid against my fancy yellow ruler) and ATF won't hurt the engine if it accidentally gets sucked in the carb's vacuum port.

Building the Balancer

Fold your 20' of vinyl tubing in half and mark the center point. Lay your yardstick down flat on a convenient work surface (kitchen table or floor). Place the center point of the tubing at the bottom end of your yardstick (there is generally a hole at the top end of the yardstick - put the center-bend of your vinyl tubing at the opposite end of the yardstick from that hole). Carefully run the tubing up each side of the yardstick, making sure that the tubing makes a smooth, non-kinked bend at the bottom.

Use the clear packing/mailing tape to fasten the tubing in place on either side ( left and right ) of the yardstick. Thread the zip-ties through the hole at the top of the yardstick and snug the left and right side tubing to the respective sides of the 'stick with the zip-ties. You should now be able to hang your yardstick from the hole in the top ( I use a bungee suspended from a hook in the garage ceiling). The tubing runs around the perimeter of the yardstick and about seven feet of tubing hangs down from the left and right sides of the 'stick. I fold a piece of tape around each end of the tubing like a little flag and mark the left side with an "L" and the right side with an "R" using a magic marker.

Now, put one side of the tubing in the container of automatic transmission fluid and, using the other side of the tubing like a drinking straw, suck ATF fluid about three feet up into the tubing. Maintaining suction for a second, pull the tubing out of the ATF container and then raise BOTH ends of the tubing above the top of the yard stick. Temporarily fasten both ends of the tubing high enough that the ATF drains down to the loop at the bottom of the yardstick. I recommend leaving it overnight so that all the bubbles, etc. work their way out.

Once the ATF has settled into the bottom of the tubing, the balancer is almost ready to use. If everything has gone according to plan, you should now have a nicely graduated rule hanging from the ceiling with a thermometer-like tube running up both sides, with the red "thermometer" fluid about half-way up each side at identical heights. Cut a piece of black electrical tape just long enough to cover the width of your ruler and use it to mark the height of the fluid. Your super-accurate Carb Synchronizing Tool is now ready to use.
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Anonymous
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« REPLY #24 on: 08/23/06 0138 Hours »
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Thanks all in the forum , I am in Brazil and did my TBS , my bike have 1100 km and the dealer also didn´t do the service right .. Embarrassed  Embarrassed  Embarrassed ....... so i did it myself , now my bike is realy good and runs very smooth , more power , i am happy now , before the TBS it stalls , hicup , etc....
THANKS !!!!  Grin  Grin
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Pablo
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« REPLY #25 on: 11/12/06 1858 Hours »
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Hi. There are some good tools to synchro, how twinmax, carbtune.com(I think that best price), or the expensive Suzuki tool, but I think that they will do how "cheap" solution. I can confirm that homemade "tool" is as precise how expensive suzuki tool. I checked it, and 1500km after use homemade tool, the suzuki tool had steel balls at less one diameter (how manual say).



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Peter
Candyman
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10/12/03 1453 Hours
Posts: 5688

DL1000K2 (sold)
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« REPLY #26 on: 11/13/06 0012 Hours »
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Pablo thanks for confirmation and thanks for the photo. You often have very useful information.  Happy
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Peter
PEOPLE WHO HAVE VISIONS SHOULD GO TO SEE THEIR DOCTOR
Anonymous
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« REPLY #27 on: 02/20/07 0816 Hours »
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I did it!!!
Today I changed the spark plugs, oil, oil filter, air filter and adjusted my throttle bodies!!
To make this job easier I removed the gas tanks, the skid plate and tha left side panel.  Also I tilted the radiator to access the front spark plug.
Changing the oil and the oil filter was easy. Also the air filter (with the o-ring) was a snap.

This Picture shows the TB WAY out of sync.


Later I built the TBS tool (http://vstrom.info/faq/index.php?sid=65817&lang=en&action=artikel&cat=3&id=25&artlang=en)  with materials from Home Depot and 10W40 Oil. Some vacuum hose to extend the “nipples” and the adjustment process (http://vstrom.info/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=3&id=26&artlang=en) was slow but worth the time.

Much better!!!


Now my bike runs better than it has ever ran.  Next week..new tires (I ordered some Anakees)
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bobbyvstrom
Bob the ridin' Realtor
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07/05/07 0746 Hours
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DL1000K6
Bremerton, Washington
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« REPLY #28 on: 09/04/07 2347 Hours »
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Strom Stevo, your system as shown in the photo has two extra tubes on it, based on what I've read in the forum.  I thought one just used a simple loop around the stick with each end attached to the extensions on the bike?  Could you explain your system?  Or are they all like yours?  And if they're all like yours, how is it hooked up? Thanks in advance. Bob
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Bobby
Used to ride: 1955 Doodlebug scooter, '59 Ducati "Bronco" 85, '60s Allstate (Puch) 175, '60s Yamaha YDS-1 250, '71 Honda SL 350, '70 Maico w/ Honda SL 350 power, late '80s Yamaha Seca 750, '89 Yamaha FJ 1200, '70s Yamaha TT 500 and an '06 KTM 450 EXC.  Now ride a  Beautiful Red DL 1000 K6.
Redbeard
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08/10/05 1813 Hours
Posts: 132

Central Virginia
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« REPLY #29 on: 09/05/07 1244 Hours »
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His is a set-up able to sync the carbs/injectors of a 4 cyl. engine - when used on a strom, the two extra tubes are plugged.

Take care,
Bob S.
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