Recent comparo 650 vice 1000 by Jim Lutter

[johnofchar]

Posted by johnofchar with Jim's permission.
--------------------
Here's my impression of the DL 650 which I just rented for 15 days in New Zealand.  I did 2300 miles under all kinds of weather conditions, hot, cold, rain, & hellish wind.  
 
For reference, the DL 650 I rode was a K5 model and had about 8,000 miles on it when I started riding it.  It had trail wing tires, and came with Givi sidebags and rear trunk.  My regular ride at home is an '03 DL 1000 which just prior to the New Zealand trip had reached 15,000 miles.  I ride it with full Suzuki/Kappa luggage and after the original Trailwings wore out, I've been riding on Anakee's.  I have a WindStrom windshield with a Laminar Lip on top.
 
I'll try and compare specific items between the 2 bikes.  
 
Windscreen:  I'll start with this because I thought perhaps the newer DL's "multi-position" windscreen might be of some improvement over the short & tall Suzuki screens which I've tried on my '03 DL 1000.  Although the manual says there are 3 positions for the new windscreen, I only found 2.  And they were bad and worse.  It's impossible to describe how horrible the windscreen is, but it is in fact, exactly as crappy as the fixed screens that came on the '03's and earlier.  At speeds of around 75-80 mph the turbulence was so bad it was just as if I were to ride down a set of railroad ties---the turbulent bumps affected my vision that badly.  So regardless of which DL you choose, you will almost certainly need to look for a better windscreen.  On day 12 I finally just removed the windscreen off the DL 650---RELIEF.  Clean air was soooo quiet and the turbulence disappeared.  Naturally body wind blast and bug hits to helmet increased.
 
Engine:  The 650 is very smooth and accelerates smartly, though it's power doesn't start coming on until about 5500 rpms, vs 4000 rpms for the DL 1000.  Felt vibrations were generally minimal and easily tolerated, although on two occasions I did feel my fingers getting numb from the vibrations when trying to maintain an extended high speed (see 'gearing" below.)   Haven't experienced numbness on my DL 1000.
 
Engine braking:  Almost non-existent on the DL 650.  In order to get it, you have to run the engine up fairly high in the RPM's.  With the DL 1000 the engine braking can be strong enough to make you slide forward in the seat.
 
Transmission:  Very smooth..and didn't seem to be as much "crunch" going from 1st to 2nd.   *But...........
 
Gearing:  The 650 needs another gear on the top end.  Even up to the 15th (last) day that I had the DL 650 I was constantly trying to shift into a non-existent 7th gear when cruising above about 65mph.  The engine starts feeling buzzy if you want to stay above that speed.  However, in it's favor, the 650's first gear is right on for normal riding, vs. the DL 1000's first gear which is (for most) way to low geared.  Going up 2 teeth on the rear sprocket has made my DL 1000 much more livable.  
 
Clutch:  The 650's manual clutch was very smooth and seemed a bit easier to manipulate than the DL 1000's hydraulic. Very easy to play with and slip the 650's clutch.
 
Ergonomics:  By measurements, I guess the 650 is just a tad smaller than the 1000, and it felt almost identical to ride.  I bought my VStrom specifically because of the upright seating for my back problem.  I had no unusual problems sitting on the 650---though I did use my gel/sheepskin pad which effectively brings the seat height up about 3/4".
 
Front suspension:  I don't quite understand the technicalities, but I understand the 650's front suspension is less sophisticated than the 1000's.  However, in riding (and some hard riding), I didn't feel any undue problems with the 650's front end.  Perhaps a bit more front end dive than I'd have liked, but it was easily adapted to.
 
Power/Passing:  If you're going to travel much, this is one area where the big Strom shines.  The 650 really ran out of gas in making some high speed passes.  I started a few passes then backed off because I didn't have the confidence I could safely complete them.  If I'd been on my 1000 there'd have been no question I'd have had more than enough time and zip to complete the passes safely.  If you haven't ridden the 1000 much, you might not appreciate this point.
 
Handling in turns:  The 650's front end turns in more easily and feels more nimble than the 1000.  If you really will do a LOT of riding in very sharp twisties, then the 650 could be a better choice.
 
Braking:  The 650's brakes felt more than a bit less effective than the DL 1000's---which aren't all that fantastic.  Perhaps the 650's needed bleeding.  I know the fluid was clean and clear.
 
Engine sound/exhaust:  This one's a bit strange.  On my DL 1000 I have original exhaust.  I find it to make a pleasant sound cruising, and an awesome snarl when I pour on the coals.  I can kind of tell where I am in the gears and get tipped to shifting by the engine/exhaust sounds.  On the DL 650, above about 50mph I couldn't hear the engine or exhaust.  Peripheral wind noise overwhelmed it.  This was a problem in that I couldn't use those sound clues to cue me for shifting.  I often found myself looking at the tach or going by handlebar vibrations to figure out if it was time to shift.
 
Handling in wind/gusts:  On 2 days we ran into horrendous wind gusts--I'm certain we had some gusts over 50 mph.  I live in an area with a lot of wind and gusts and am pretty used to gusts, but these were extreme.  The DL 650 was frightening---it actually felt like the front end might blow out from under me.  I've never felt that on the DL 1000 even in extreme gusts.  Slowing to below 60mph made a significant improvement on the 650.  The front end of the 650 just became incredibly "light" feeling during the gusts, and that was not a good feeling.
 
Handling on dirt/gravel:  We did a handful of dirt gravel roads.  The 650 handled these without a problem.  I think the Trailwings are better on this than the Anakees.  *Note that the 650 has no protection for the exposed front cylinder/oil cooler--the 1000 has a plastic spoiler which while easily criticized as being "a plastic spoiler" has handled 15,000 miles of riding and certainly a lot of rocks without a crack or even a visible scratch.  Getting a spoiler or skid plate to protect the 650 would be a very high priority.
 
Misc:  The DL 650 does not have the "OD", 6th gear indicator light.  This was an incredibly annoying problem if you're used to having one.  Between not having that to clue me that I was "out of gears" to up-shift, and the lack of engine/exhaust noise to clue me, this added to the never ending search for the non-existent 7th gear.  Not having this light is not something that is easy to adjust to.
 
My conclusion:  The DL 650 is a great bike.  Engine & transmission very smooth.  Windscreen and brakes could be better (same problem as on DL 1000.)  If most of your riding is solo, or if you really, really will be doing a lot of twisties you'll love the 650.  I "re-learned" how to ride hard through twisties on this trip, and rode the 650 almost like a dirt bike---high revving, slipping the clutch.  It was a very willing and able partner.  If I didn't already have a DL 1000, for my riding here, which is mostly solo trips of 90 miles or less, the DL 650 would be more than adequate.
 
But if you plan on doing much distance riding, and especially if you would ride much with a pillion, you should consider the DL 1000.  It feels much more stable at high speeds, you almost never feel you need more power in passing.  Even with stock sprockets, the DL 1000 doesn't seem to be working hard at 90+mph.  On the DL 650, above 65mph you'll wish you had another gear.   The engine snarl and kick in your pants from the DL 1000 is just something that comes with the bigger engine.
 
If you are going to do a lot of dirt/gravel, and if you will be doing it at 25mph or less, you'll notice the DL 1000's weight more.
 
The VStroms are selling because they deliver a hell of a value for the money, and a lot of us obviously like the ergonomics.  While we often don't come out and specifically say it, the VStrom makes a hell of a great touring bike.  And it's a touring bike that has no problem going on dirt or gravel roads.  It is not a "dirt bike."  Both bikes are capable of going just about anywhere, and can take 2 people in doing it.  But having ridden both bikes for extended periods, the DL 1000 has a better feel for longer rides.
 
If someone really isn't sure if they should get the 650 or 1000, it is our human nature--for better or worse---to generally want 'more' and 'bigger.'  If finances aren't a big factor, and if you aren't going to be on twisties every other day, and if it fits you, you won't regret getting the DL 1000 for the additional 'grin factor' that it has.  Often in emergencies on a motorcycle, the ability to accelerate out of a situation can be as important as the ability to stop .  This is a very big difference in favor of the DL 1000.
 
Prior to getting the DL 1000 I had a Nighthawk 750 for a couple years.  I'd have much rather had the DL 650 than the Nighthawk, if it had been available.
 
On this trip, one person rode a Cagiva 650, another a BMW 650 GS.  The DL 650 could out-accelerate either of those--especially at higher speeds.  I've ridden a BMW 650 GS and the Suzuki's twin is WAY smoother.
 
OK, there's my 2.5 cents.  Hope this might be helpful to someone.
 
**Side note:  Not sure of the actual volume of the GIVI cases on my rented DL 650--they looked as big as my stock Suzuki/Kappa bags.  But they weren't.  As "un-aesthetic" as the Suzuki bags are, they hold a ton of stuff.  The side bags can easily take a full helmet---the GIVI's could not.  The Suzuki trunk can take 2 helmets.  The GIVI trunk could barely take my single helmet, and then only if it was positioned exactly right.  I'm sure GIVI makes bigger bags.  Be careful of what you buy.

 
 
 

[Anonymous]

Thanks John for your in depth report. You seem to have covered about everything that one would have question on. Any pictures of your trip?

[Anonymous]

Sorry John, wasn't your trip but Jim's. Same question, where there any pictures?

[johnofchar]

Jim doesn't post here. If he makes some available, or the other guys on his trip do, I'll post a link to them.

jw

[Peter]

That's really informative, and provides more details about the differences and positives of each bike, than any magazine article I read. Should be really helpful for some undecided people.

My best regards to Jim and many thanks to him!

[Anonymous]

Yesterday, I got another chance to get some seat time on a 650. (Thanks Devin - AKA Speedstar).  The WeeStrom is a hoot to ride!  Loved the sound of the Staintune pipe without baffle and the Clutch/Tranny were as good as any dirt bike.  Jim's comparo above absolutely nailed the difference between the two bikes.  Kind of makes me wish for a 800 cc version which would be lighter than the 1000 and more powerful than the 650.  If I had to do it all over again, I could see myself owning a 650.

Andy

[SpeedStar]

Hey Andy,  I agree on the DL800 if we could make the perfect combo of the two.
The size and feel of the 650 with just a little extra power for the grin factor.
Until then, I like my little 650.
I will love it when we get the new Wilbers suspension.  

[Peter]

Another vote for a DL800 with the weight of the DL650.

[Anonymous]

Hi speed passing is one area that I would really like to see some more omph... Another vote for an 800.  
I just liked the balance of my wee strom over the DL 1000 and since I do a lot of twisties that made a difference.

I really love the bike and have to say it is probably one of the best I've owned over the years. After 17,000 miles since last August, the grin on my face will have to be surgically removed at this point.  

[Peter]

Grin is in.

[Anonymous]

I love my 650 .... passes everything I want it to.




JOHN - is that the only dance step you know, and that mini-skirt and boots you wear are so retro 70's !!!!


HAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous]

OOPS .....


That is Peter dancing wearing boots and mini-skirt.

I must pay attention a little more.

[Peter]

Oh sh... unveiled ... how did you find out it is me??

[RubberDown]

Quote:

garys999 wrote on 21.06.2006 21:00[/i] That is Peter dancing wearing boots and mini-skirt.

Peter.......pardon me for saying it but........




















you're HOT!!!

[Peter]

.. ahhh hmmm don't say thaaat

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Just ordered my third DL, a Vee K7/8 GT.

My first was a K2 DL1000.  My first impression was a very buffety reasonably good handler with a very bouncy rear shock.  My first mod was to ditch the very weak 8kg spring and install a 12kg spring (which was down on the 14kg Ohlins item fitted to my Aprilia Mille).  This transformed the ride and when eventually matched with front Ohlins springs and dropped 15mm forks gave me a really good handler.  Chudder made me get a new clutch basket under warranty and titanium Scorpians smoothed the engine.

This bike always had a rough motor and excessive engine breaking but boy did it shift.  I never had a problem with traffic or keeping up with sports bikes.  I often would come up to flash Harry's on sports litre bikes, particulary on Salisbury Plain GB who could not see round corners and I could murder them through the bends with extra vision the strom gave me.  Some of them would ride so slowly round the bends and then gas it down the straights, it would drive me round the bend!!!

This setup was great and better than a 800 non VTEC VFR I owned.

I lived with the engine and the buffeting (I never replaced the screen at all - not worth it!)

Finish was OK - no worse than Honda or Yamaha and better than BMW (I have seen some some shocking corrosion on Beemers!).  Trick is to fit a fender extender and wash off the salt - and use scottoil 365 concentrate.  I also used a scottoiler - not great will explain later.

Anyway, got bored with this bike and decided to give up biking for a while.  This lasted about 6 weeks!

As I was mostly commuting with the DL I figured its replacement could be the smaller more nimble 650 Wee.  I still had the Zuk Gel seat so my seating position would be the same.  And the fact that the frame, wheels, brakes etc are the same gave me confidence in the product.

Bought Wee in April 2007.  First and lasting impression is great.  The suspension on the Wee is much better than the K2 Vee.  Properly sprung; this just needed pre-loading the rear spring quite a bit and the handling was as good as my modified K2 Vee!!!  It steered as good and I didn't need to drop the bike through the forks.  

Brakes, Motor, Clutch are better than my Vee.  Brakes don't need the braided lines that I fitted to the Vee; the engine is smooth and eager and the clutch is more progressive.  

Gearbox is not so good and needs a good kick in 5th and 6th or you can get a box full of false neutrals.  Now better with Red Castrol Oil.  Front fork can be a little clanky over bumps as well, although generally feels smooth on the road.

Finish is fine and hasn't corroded at all in a year of riding (albeit not much in rain or salt) and I haven't fitted the dreaded oiler.  Reason?  Over oiling!  The best bit about the scotty isn't the auto lubber but the oil itself.  Save money and lub the chain yourself with Scottoil, I do this every other day and give the chain a good clean every fortnight.  You do need the centre stand for this - Start bike, run in first and run a line of scottoil on the chain, job done in seconds but be careful!  I know that long distances could be a problem though.  Clean up with WD40.  Result, never had to adjust the chain in 4,000 miles and it shines as new!

So the Wee has many good points but for me, a major weakness.  It can't handle two large adults two up that well.  Me, 6'2" and much the wrong side of 100kg and wife at 85kg means the bike struggles.  Also, the eagerness of the motor comes from the 650 lump and brilliant gearing from Suzuki, it is actually quite low geared so after you roar off going though the first 5 gears you look down to see you are still at 55mph!  And you are being buzzed by a Volkswagen Diesel!  It doesn't have the urge to gap cars and get you up the road quickly like the 1K did.  This, I found, was actually dangerous in a couple of scenarios and put me in a tricky situation that I couldn't accelerate away from.  

With the Vee, you know that it takes a blumming quick car to mess with you and on crowded UK roads, this is getting worse.

So 650 going next week.  I hope the K7 Vee is sorted with its suspension like the 650 and is smoother and I am looking forward to the low rev urge from the big motor.

I will miss the economy (49mpg) and low insurance (£120) of the 650 though.

Hope you find this useful.

Steve

[HJ]

Nice report John.
   I have an`09 650 `Strom and contemplated extensibly prior to purchase the attributes of of both bikes.I have had numerous "over 1000CC" rides over the years and find that it isn`t often I miss the  extra displacement of the bigger bikes.Truth be told ,however, is that I haven`t ridden a 1000`Strom .I have  ,although,recently departed with my Ducati 1000 Monster-for which I can relate the power, handling differences with the "Wee".
    Seems as though its just a different riding technique.Rev city Vs/ brute power--sometimes too much and a bit abrupt with the Ducati.I find the DL650 to be a lot of fun once the engine gets into its "zone" and starts getting with the program.The Ducati had an almost invincible confidence factor as far as passing was concerned.Any gear-any speed-twist and you`d be gone.The little 650 takes a bit of mental reserve prior to such activities-but also being a former Harley owner-that mind set doesn`t take all that much getting used to and the Suzook is still WAY better at any speed related function.
   I`d imagine that the 1000`Strom would shine brightest riding two up--loaded down -and going uphill when compared to the 'Wee".That`s displacement,and torque doing its thing.Higher speed twisties with fast transitions puts the 650 in its element.Lighter weight being a big help here.Just gotta keep the loud handle a bit more activated and assume the fun zone isn`t reached until about 5,500rpm.Once there ,the grin factor takes over and all is good in the world.Ride safely! HJ.

[mcmann]

Posted by johnofchar with Jim's permission.
--------------------
However, in it's favor, the 650's first gear is right on for normal riding, vs. the DL 1000's first gear which is (for most) way to low geared.  Going up 2 teeth on the rear sprocket has made my DL 1000 much more livable.  
 

Is this a typo?  Going up 2 teeth on the rear will make the bike lower geared . . . not higher ??

[johnofchar]

Probably meant high instead of low.

[mcmann]

I like the stock gearing on the DL1K . . . will go up to a 16T front and drop 2 teeth on the rear of my 650 (to a 45T) . . . less shifting . . . it should have enough power to pull taller gears . . . maybe the speedo will be more accurate.

[KenVee`d]

I appreciate all the talk about passing needing umph!. My old GSX1100ESD just blew past anything and everything, My RD400F scared everything into submission by shrieking at it through the expansion chambers.

However I had a Suzi 250 Across for 10 years. Look it up it was a 4 cyl 250cc 16V head DOHC. 17,000rpm redline. Fuel tank was under the seat and where the tank should go was a boot to stick your helmet so obviously all your crap for a day ride or overnight trip fit in there.

The thing is riding the 250 for years made me relearn how to ride properly, no relying on grunt to pull you out of the shit, and passing had to be well calculated, which means safely. I am a punter when it comes to riding, so there are still more than a few riders in the Adelaide hills who had superior weaponry to me and are still scratching their heads trying to work it out how I got past them in the first place. They could only ever beat me on pure grunt.

So now on the 05/650 'Strom I just engage those skills and nothing is a problem. I really did toy with the idea of a 1000, but after riding my wifes BMW F650gs to the Peak District and back, two up, with all the panniers loaded - cruised on 75 mph as this was the organic mood of the traffic that day on the Motorway, which meant about 15 to 20mph left in the sprint if we needed it. On all the A roads and B roads life was grand no probs with any passing that we needed to do - I just questioned the need for a 1000 after that.

Okay if you gave me a SV 1000 I would be okay with that 

[ccRider246]

This was an extremely useful write up for me. I currently ride a CB750F and am looking for a newer ride for touring. I'm 61 and have back problems so an upright riding position is important to me. A buddy has been trying to convert me to a cruiser and encouraged me to test sit the VTX1300. I quickly ruled out cruisers. I was drawn to the new (to the states) NT700. It fits right but I am concerned about the power on a V-twin 680cc bike and it's ability to haul my 240# carcass and all the camping gear on week long solo trips. Plus, the price tag is high for a 680 cc V-twin. If I am going to spend near 10k on a bike I think the 1000 is the right bike. It would sure be nice to test ride but no one in my neck of the woods permits test rides on "that type of a bike" (meaning a sport bike).

I'm trying to compare fuel economy on the 650 vs the 1000 but haven't been able to nail that down. I know the 650 will be excellent but I am see conflicting reports on the 1000 - anywhere from 27 - 50 mpg. I'm a conservative rider. If I can't get 40 mpg out of the 1000 then I think I would have to go with the 650 for that reason alone. I'm able to get 45 - 50 mpg on my 29 year old I-4 750. I gotta think the same type of riding should yield at least 40 on the fuel injected 1000. I will keep reading teh next few reports and hopefully find more info in this.

[Bill]

  MPG depends a lot on how you ride I average 52 MPG on my DL1000 ,but I treat her well and then some times not , when "not" it drops to as low as 44 MPG

[silverado]

  Ditto. I have had a high of 48mpg on my 1000 but I usally get an avg.42. 38 if I am ripping through the mountains of N.C. and 44-45 two up with my wife because I take it easy with her on it. Either way both bikes are great and the 650 excells in ways the 1000 does'nt. I know a few guys who are very robust, 230+ and they have the 650 with no complants about proformance.

[richw]

MOTOR Cycle.....  motor

MOTOR even the 1000 is less than a 100 HP

Acceleration is fun
Passing is fun
Wheelies are fun
You won't have to upgrade

I am not sure the 650 gets better mileage but even if it is 10% better.....  you don't care about that.  Its fun bench racing talk about mileage but you don't give a rats behind really.

In Europe you are taxed up the but for displacement and gas is what $5.00 I would say there is an argument

I think the 650 is like 30 pounds lighter with poorer suspension components.  Maybe if you were always on higher speed dirt roads the 650 would be a better choice but that is all.

If I think that my life on biking would be way better off with 30 pounds less than all I have to do is look down at my gut where 30 pounds could be found easy.

Motorcycles are big toys
Toys are for fun
More power more fun

[Peter]

Under the same conditions, same roads, speeds, etc. etc., the DL650 showed a significantly lower fuel consumption:

at constant 130 kph / country roads

Suzuki V-Strom DL1000: 6,3 l per 100km  / 5,4 l per 100km
Suzuki V-Strom DL650:   4,8 l per 100km / 3,9 l per 100km

in your world that would translate to

at constant 80 mph / country roads

Suzuki V-Strom DL1000: 37 mpg  / 44 mpg
Suzuki V-Strom DL650:   49 mpg / 60 mpg

source: German magazine MOTORRAD 17-2008

[johnofchar]

in your world that would translate to

at constant 80 mph / country roads

Suzuki V-Strom DL1000: 37 mpg  / 44 mpg
Suzuki V-Strom DL650:   49 mpg / 60 mpg

From my experience with both bikes that's about right.

[Bolzen]

Looks like somebody is trying to deviate from the subject on a new Tenere.
Mind you that at 130 Burger 400 takes 1.5 less gas than Wee, but fun factor is not there at such speeds

[richw]

Does the 650 power wheelie ?  my 1K does

Now lets take a smiles per miles mileage test

[ricofly47]

Thank you for all the info, i will keep my dl 1000, i whas thinking in switching for dl650.