FAQ: How to test for DL1000 Clutch CHUDDER

[johnofchar]

Chudder = shudder + chatter in the 3000-4000 RPM range.

Do this: Find the rough area in the rpm range (usually 3300-3700) so you can consistently duplicate the "Chudder" as you ride your bike. Once you've found it, now ride through it and as you do, pull in the clutch just a hair as you pass through the offending range and see what happens.

If the chudder disappears, you likely have the infamous clutch chudder. If it does not disappear, there may be other issues, like throttle body synchronization, throttle position sensor adjustment or lean FI issues.

[TroyJ746]

Just finished tuning with the Teka SFI, (thanks again, John!) and now know the "rough spot" I've been chasing is the "chudder".  Slight pressure on the lever at the suspect RPM's turns the motor into butter!  THAT is what I'm looking for!

What is it about the clutch that is actually causing the vibrations?  I assume it's mechanical?

[johnofchar]

Mostly the main drive gear (clutch basket). Look though this clutch section, you should find all you need to know. Post anymore questions in one of the existing threads please.

[Sharealike]

The CHUDDER TEST temporarily centre's up an "out of balance" or "out of true" clutch basket and plates set. They go slightly out of true/shape the very first time you load them up from new. It's a fault in the way they are all made with a poor bush and a loose plate inside the damper. They measure up and look fine when out of the bike but get "off tune" and "off true" as soon as the load is applied. The severity of the vibration creeps in so slowly over the miles that so many owners start to ride round the vibes without realising. Worst through a certain spot in the 3,000 to 4,000 rpm rnge but nothing like as good as they should be right through to the red line. They are all comparatively smooth right through with a correctly re-engineered modifed clutch basket. See posts showing just whats wrong and how to sort it out in this section - http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,12325.0.html

We will get this problem licked good and proper.

Sharealike

[farmer]

My first post so bear with me please. I live in Alaska and bought a used 02 V-Strom 1000 a couple of months back from a dealer in Kansas that I trusted from past experience. It had 26,000 miles and was set up like I wanted, center stand, Givi luggage, etc. When I picked the bike up I noticed that it had a vibration when idling in neutral until I disengaged the clutch. And after it warmed up it had a vibration in the clutch and transmission until the Rpm's got over 2800. I changed the oil to M1 20w-50 and it seemed better. When I got to the mountains I noticed that it vibrated up to 4000 Rpm's when going up a steep hill. By the time I got to Alaska I was busy shifting gears to find a place where it didn't vibrate. It was like riding a jackhammer. I searched the forum's looking for an answer, it seemed that I have clutch chudder? I scattered the bike around the garage trying to find the root cause. I'm not a parts changer and it seemed a new clutch basket was only a temporary fix. All parts were in spec and I could no wear on anything. I went to the local dealer and got no help, I ordered a new gasket, but told them I would wait on the $285 clutch basket. I went to bed and started visualizing the power train in action, I can't help it, I have been a mechanic for so many years this crap keeps me up many nights. It finally came to me. The recoil springs having slack allowed the clutch basket to recoil back and forth, when the engine power pulses got near the same frequency as the clutch they excited the action until the basket was acting like a jackhammer. I got out of bed and shimmed the three primary springs with washers the same OD as the springs. I left the other springs as found, I would shim them later if needed. I have since put over 200 miles on the bike and it pulls like an electric motor up hills even well below 3000 Rpm's and idles smooth. Cost of repair was 12 cents. I needed to change the oil and antifreeze anyway. I will replace the gasket and check my shims when the new gasket comes in. I hope this helps somebody. sb

[johnofchar]

I got out of bed and shimmed the three primary springs with washers the same OD as the springs. I left the other springs as found, I would shim them later if needed. I have since put over 200 miles on the bike and it pulls like an electric motor up hills even well below 3000 Rpm's and idles smooth. Cost of repair was 12 cents.

Could you be a little more specific. Size of & how many washers? How they are inserted & held in place? Which 3 springs do you call primary? A photo or 3 would be much appreciated.

Yours still have the old style basket that looks like this?

[TroyJ746]

 

[farmer]

Mr. johnofchar,
I wanted to experiment to see if my theory was correct. So I started with 1 washer on each of the longer (red) springs, they seemed to be closer to making contact than the other three. I took the oil pump drive gear off and pried the springs back a little with a screwdriver and started the washer into the gap, then drove them in by tapping them on the top edge with the screwdriver and a small hammer. I installed the washers on the end nearest the pins/rivets so they were spaced evenly and wouldn't throw the basket out of balance. The washers were for 1/4" bolts I believe? This was enough shim to give the springs a little preload and when I tried to twist the basket and gear in opposite directions by hand it would just barely move a little. Before when there was slack in the springs I could twist the basket a good bit before loading the springs. I started small and figured to increase the shims and preload if it helped. I have found the shims to be enough, so far it is working great.
I punched a small tit on the inside hole of each washer and installed them with the tit pointing away from the spring so that when it popped over the edge of the square hole it would not work it's way back out. I planned to check them and install washers on the other springs if needed when the new gasket comes in. (two weeks) I reused the old gasket which held together pretty fair and stuck to the engine side when I pulled the clutch cover and I put a little form a gasket around the coolant ports to make sure I didn't contaminate the oil. I left the waterpump in place in the cover so didn't need to replace the O-ring. Make sure the flat end of the waterpump shaft lines up with the slot in the shaft from the engine and it goes together easy. I hope this helps, feel free to poke at me if you have any questions or suggestions. I'm hear to learn. sb
Oh yeah that picture looks like my clutch basket, you will notice that three of the springs have a larger gap between the coils, those are the ones I left as found.

[johnofchar]

Thanks for the details, I think I'm following. Please keep us updated down the road.

Doesn't look like this may be an option on the newer style basket with the larger retainers, also double springs. The springs are still loose, even when new.

I'll take a look at my SV basket in a few months to see if shimming is possible. It has a bad case of the cludder as well.

[Strmboui]

Farmer,
I replaced my clutch basket with the new one about 46k ago.  The original only has 2k on it. My bike is a K3 model and is due a new clutch pack so I will try your "washer fix" .  I have already loaded the washers in the old clutch basket as you instructed nearest the rivets of the primary springs.  However the secondary springs have quite a bit of slop as well, hmm.  Anyway, my new clutch basket work for a while, about 20k or less. It becomes a gradual process and finally you just keep everything at 4k rpm or better.  Just suffer the roll-through of lower rpm.  Put a PC Cdr on and improved power but "Chudder" remains the same. 

Once I get the clutch apart I will look to see if the "Washer Fix" will work on the newer Clutch basket.  Don't know what the back of the newer clutch basket  spring casing looks like.   

If you have any updates on your "washer Fix" let me know soon.  Better to know before I put it all back together.

Thanks,
Strmboui

[farmer]

Mr. Strmboui,
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I have about a 1000 miles on the washer fix and am happy with the results. I have ridden some trails and lot of mountain roads and have not experienced any chudder. I hesitated to shim all six springs originally because I thought it my cause more felt engine power pulses at low RPM's, but now think that it wouldn't be a problem. When the engine it warm and idling slow in neutral I can hear vibration coming from the clutch/transmission when I in-gauge the clutch. It is very minor and most people probably wouldn't notice it, but this winter I plan to shim the other three springs to see if this helps. It may be that with warm oil and low RPM's the power pulses are exciting the gears on the transmission causing them to bounce a little and the additional preload on the basket springs will not alleviate the noise? I'm probably being a little annal about it, but I get my kicks from making things run better or smoother. Good riding.  Scott

[Sharealike]

farmer

How did the shims in three springs fair with more distance on the basket?

I have a long term fix for similar vibrations on SV's and need to prove same works for DL's and KLV's.

Sharealike

[farmer]

Mr. Sharealike,
i think the three shims fixed it or 99% anyway. It still has a little bit of backlash that I can hear when idling in nuetral. I had planned to pull the cover and basket to check the shims and install a new gasket. I did not have a new gasket when I did the fix. i now think that I will put washers under the other three springs to see if there is any change.
Before the fix the chudder was horrible until i got over 4000 RPMs, it was bad when I left Ks and by the time I got to AK (5000 miles) I didn't know if it was going to make it. So the three shims would probably be good if you haven't run it as long and hammered the springs as much as I did. i don't hold much hope that the six washer fix will make the basket/transmission shaft run any smoother, but it may and if the power pulses are a little stronger that is fine by me. I have always liked the feel of big cruiser engines and it can't be that severe.  scott

[suzuki kid]

I have read on the Stromer Web site that replacing the dl1000 basket with the sv1000 basket cured this chudder problem. If this is true I would like to try it. My clutch is noisy at idle, but sounds better if you hold the clutch engaged. The noise starts at 3000 rpms till 4000. Also, when at cruising speed in top gear,if you gradually easy the throllet up you can feel a vibration. It feels like the chain, but could be the clutch transmitting down the chain,or I'am feeling it in the pegs. This is a 2002 DL1000 with 38k. I bought it used with 12,000 miles in 2004. So, far I ride above 4000 RPM. I did not understand the dimple in the washer, nor the location of this dent in the washer. I got to go back and re-read your post, the hope of smooth to hard to imagine.   

[johnofchar]

No I don't believe the SV basket is a cure anymore than the newer DL basket. You take your chances with either one. It may cure it & it may not. May SV basket has chudder & noise (maybe worse) just as bad as my DL baskets.

[Sharealike]

Other tests to confirm it's the chudder once it's on the bench. Hope it's ok to slide these in here. I get so many asking how they make a second diagnosis so now it's all in one place.

Watch the windows round the springs click back and forwards as the basket reaches the limits of travel. Thats the loose inner plate. Makes noise at idle - sometimes only when cold and others only when hot. And some all the time. Once bad as this it's going to chudder as you ride. The springs should be loose - but not the plate they push against. The windows are all in the same plate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUoJhN2JCHY

See also the gear loose in the aluminum basket. Another sign the basket was causing the chudder. Might not need a lever each side on a real bad one. If it clunks side to side much it's got it. Try a few directions as can be loose in only one direction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF45mwGnLAY

[johnD]

Speaking about the DL1000 clutch problem, is it possible that the clutch chudder is caused by damage from doing wheelies? I'm thinking that the abuse on the clutch is causing the loosening of the components and making it rattle. Can this explain why some bikes have the chudder and other bikes don't?

[realshelby]

Wheelies are not "the" cause. Bikes ridden very hard will develop wear issues sooner than bikes that are run at 70 mph for trips or commuting all the time. I have found that many owners claim not to have chudder or other vibrations from wear on these bikes, yet when I have talked some of those into trying a modified basket, they realized how bad the basket actually had been. These problems develop slowly, the rider gets used to them. By the time it becomes so aware it cannot be ignored, the owner has put up with a poorly behaving bike for thousands of miles!

I have had several dozen new baskets apart. There is a difference in tolerance in them that will explain why some hold up longer than others. But they all show the same problems over time. Even the new updated 2018 version has the same soft aluminum bearing surface. Same plate to basket fit that eventually leads to chudder. While you can just buy a new basket and fix chudder for a while, the only permanent upgrade is a modified basket. Those with the second bearing added (WERKS) are actually smoother than new OEM replacements, and they stay that way!