DL650 v DL1000

[ZenMan]

Quote:

BBurton wrote on 04.11.2006 13:30[/i] I would love to come out and ride with ya Zenman! We could even switch bikes for a while......no harm in that!!

That'd be great, I'd be happy to switch bikes for awhile! I've been thinking about getting a DL1000 as a second bike, so that would give me a chance to test it out first.  

Plus if you've never ridden a DL650, you get to try one out for yourself!  

Coming from Columbus it's only about 650-700 miles, all ya need is one day of decent weather to get down here. Let me know when your comin', I'll put a pot o' beans on...  

[BBurton]

Quote:

ZenMan wrote on 04.11.2006 14:50[/i] Quote: BBurton wrote on 04.11.2006 13:30[/i] I would love to come out and ride with ya Zenman! We could even switch bikes for a while......no harm in that!! That'd be great, I'd be happy to switch bikes for awhile! I've been thinking about getting a DL1000 as a second bike, so that would give me a chance to test it out first.   Plus if you've never ridden a DL650, you get to try one out for yourself!   Coming from Columbus it's only about 650-700 miles, all ya need is one day of decent weather to get down here. Let me know when your comin', I'll put a pot o' beans on...

Might just have to do that one of these days!!!!!  Also.....aint ya read my babble posts?? I have
#####  ridden the 650, and I like it as much as the 1000. Not sure about the beans, but I'll take ya up on the chili and venison!!

Later,

BB

[PeterW]

Quick bike swap last weekend.

I got to ride a DL 1000, and the DL 1000 rider got my DL 650.

Overall impression - it's embarassing to have to really hussle to catch your own bike when you are on something significantlly more powerful.

I could live with the 1000, the stock suspension was better, as were the ergo's. Bars didn't pull me forward and down as far as they did on the 650.

The DL 1000 sounds like a concrete mixer compared with the 650 - and feels like one - I don't mean that in a really bad way - but the engine is noticably lumpier and the bike has that unstoppable feel that a mixer full of cement has.

Handling of the 1000, it felt like the 650 with one of my kids on the back. Almost unoticeable, but you do feel the extra weight.

I prefer the 650, I don't often ride 2-up and pretty much at sane speeds so there's nothing in the 1000 that appeals. 1-up it didin't really feel like the extra power made up for the weight.

It wasn't noticeably quicker than the 650 at sane speeds, just less gear changes involved. Chasing the 1000 later on the 650 on windy roads was easy - if anything I was having to try hard to stay behind the 1000.

Biased report - my 650 is pretty well sorted, the 1000 was fairly new.

Peter

[Reverendbiker]

I've owned both bikes, and my impressions were exactly the same as yours.  Of course, that won't make us too popular with the Vee crowd

[rosstrom]

I also agree - having spent 1 an a half years and 15000 miles with the wee, I've now got a thou' and have racked up 1000 miles in the last couple of weeks.

The wee was described as being 'a great bike to ride with a hangover' in one of our magazines - it's true!
The thou' needs more 'looking after' - careful with the throttle, choose the correct gear every time - I could trundle around town in 4th gear on the wee nae bother - on the thou' I'm cutting and changing between 2nd and 3rd.

However - suspension is better on bigger bike - my wee always made a 'knocking' sound when going over a bump - seemingly the SV650 is the same.  Thou' soaks up more.

And then we get on to the power....!

(The reason I upgraded was I felt underpowered with pillion and luggage on the 650.)

If not doing that a lot I think the 650 IS the better bike.

I regularly got 55+ mpg on the wee - only 40 on the thou'

That's the difference of filling up after 220miles compared to after 160miles...quite a difference.

(on one motorway trip I filled up after over 260 miles!! superb)

So, in summary - 650 for solo rides and mileage, 1000 for pillion and luggage.

[Anonymous]

PW,  I agree with the illustrious Rev. on this one, I think you pretty well hit it on the head with your observations. I have never felt or heard my wee bottom out ... or make any kind of noise with the suspension adjusted properly .... even two-up with luggage ;  and feel it does just fine suspension and power wise with two-up ... but then again ....  I am not much of the Ricky- racer type rider ;  .... and I don't care much for :  ...  the added feature of more constant gear searching/shifting.  I feel that for myself the wee is the most enjoyable, well rounded, and best balanced overall bike I have ever owned. I have a Large total and complete Wee Smile on my face every time I approach the bike. Regards to all.  

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Just ordered my third DL, a Vee K7/8 GT.

My first was a K2 DL1000.  My first impression was a very buffety reasonably good handler with a very bouncy rear shock.  My first mod was to ditch the very weak 8kg spring and install a 12kg spring (which was down on the 14kg Ohlins item fitted to my Aprilia Mille).  This transformed the ride and when eventually matched with front Ohlins springs and dropped 15mm forks gave me a really good handler.  Chudder made me get a new clutch basket under warranty and titanium Scorpians smoothed the engine.

This bike always had a rough motor and excessive engine breaking but boy did it shift.  I never had a problem with traffic or keeping up with sports bikes.  I often would come up to flash Harry's on sports litre bikes, particulary on Salisbury Plain GB who could not see round corners and I could murder them through the bends with extra vision the strom gave me.  Some of them would ride so slowly round the bends and then gas it down the straights, it would drive me round the bend!!!

This setup was great and better than a 800 non VTEC VFR I owned.

I lived with the engine and the buffeting (I never replaced the screen at all - not worth it!)

Finish was OK - no worse than Honda or Yamaha and better than BMW (I have seen some some shocking corrosion on Beemers!).  Trick is to fit a fender extender and wash off the salt - and use scottoil 365 concentrate.  I also used a scottoiler - not great will explain later.

Anyway, got bored with this bike and decided to give up biking for a while.  This lasted about 6 weeks!

As I was mostly commuting with the DL I figured its replacement could be the smaller more nimble 650 Wee.  I still had the Zuk Gel seat so my seating position would be the same.  And the fact that the frame, wheels, brakes etc are the same gave me confidence in the product.

Bought Wee in April 2007.  First and lasting impression is great.  The suspension on the Wee is much better than the K2 Vee.  Properly sprung; this just needed pre-loading the rear spring quite a bit and the handling was as good as my modified K2 Vee!!!  It steered as good and I didn't need to drop the bike through the forks.  

Brakes, Motor, Clutch are better than my Vee.  Brakes don't need the braided lines that I fitted to the Vee; the engine is smooth and eager and the clutch is more progressive.  

Gearbox is not so good and needs a good kick in 5th and 6th or you can get a box full of false neutrals.  Now better with Red Castrol Oil.  Front fork can be a little clanky over bumps as well, although generally feels smooth on the road.

Finish is fine and hasn't corroded at all in a year of riding (albeit not much in rain or salt) and I haven't fitted the dreaded oiler.  Reason?  Over oiling!  The best bit about the scotty isn't the auto lubber but the oil itself.  Save money and lub the chain yourself with Scottoil, I do this every other day and give the chain a good clean every fortnight.  You do need the centre stand for this - Start bike, run in first and run a line of scottoil on the chain, job done in seconds but be careful!  I know that long distances could be a problem though.  Clean up with WD40.  Result, never had to adjust the chain in 4,000 miles and it shines as new!

So the Wee has many good points but for me, a major weakness.  It can't handle two large adults two up that well.  Me, 6'2" and much the wrong side of 100kg and wife at 85kg means the bike struggles.  Also, the eagerness of the motor comes from the 650 lump and brilliant gearing from Suzuki, it is actually quite low geared so after you roar off going though the first 5 gears you look down to see you are still at 55mph!  And you are being buzzed by a Volkswagen Diesel!  It doesn't have the urge to gap cars and get you up the road quickly like the 1K did.  This, I found, was actually dangerous in a couple of scenarios and put me in a tricky situation that I couldn't accelerate away from.  

With the Vee, you know that it takes a blumming quick car to mess with you and on crowded UK roads, this is getting worse.

So 650 going next week.  I hope the K7 Vee is sorted with its suspension like the 650 and is smoother and I am looking forward to the low rev urge from the big motor.

I will miss the economy (49mpg) and low insurance (£120) of the 650 though.

Hope you find this useful.

Steve

[SeattleVee]

Here's an additional experience with both bikes.  I started with a Vee (K4), and now have a Wee (2007).  I'd agree with the general assessment that the Vee has a kick butt motor  and a sweeter sound, and the look of the dual exhaust pipes is also nice. 

But I decided that what I preferred was a smoother, lighter bike.  My primary riding is solo and commuting to work (my original plan was going to be some touring with my GF on the back, so the extra power of the Vee seemed like a good thing...but my GF decided it really wasn't something she was all that interesting in).

And I also like the feel of the Wee being flickier around the twisties  .  Pretty much consistent with what most people see as the difference between the 2.  Only thing I like less about the Wee is that the brakes on  my Wee aren't as strong as the Vee.  I might try upgrading the brake lines, and maybe see if there are brake pads with more stopping power (although I'd guess they wouldn't last as long).  It's not that the brakes aren't sufficient, I'd just prefer brakes with more power like the one's I have on the Vee.  Before I got the 2 V-Stroms, I rode a sport bike for about 9 years, and the brakes on that thing were impressively powerful.

Another difference is that the throttle on my Vee seems to take more effort to roll on, and I like the easier twisting throttle on the Wee.  I have one of those cramp buster things (plastic lever that goes on the throttle grip) on the Vee which helps, but still find the Wee feels like it has a much lighter spring and takes less to roll on the power.

Lastly, with all the power and torque of the Vee, I find it more abrupt in acceleration and engine braking.  My preference is simply for a smoother feel, and I find the Wee has plenty of power for my purposes.

But I think both bikes are great - just different.  In perfect world, I'd keep both, but I can really only have a single bike.  So the Wee it is....at least for me. 

[Bolzen]

It wasn't noticeably quicker than the 650 at sane speeds

Yup -- not at all. Almost the same speed

video

[bobbyvstrom]

Interesting comparison Bolzen.  Seems about right (not the speedo's but the relative performance). SeattleVee:  I have also owned a TL 1000 S which uses the same basic engine but a higher performance version of it.  At around 120 HP, it hauled pretty well.  The reason I brought this up is that the TL, while higher performance, was also smoother than my DL 1000.  There's something about the engine/throttle or whatever that makes the DL1000 fairly awkward at low speeds.  In parking lots and close maneuvering I ALWAYS have my clutch partly disengaged just in case the engine burps or I hit a little bump and twitch the throttle.  I haven't ridden a 650, though I can imagine it being a lot smoother.  The TL felt more like an "electric" V Twin.  I expected it to be very twitchy on the throttle but it was not at all.  Easy to ride in traffic except for not being able to see behind me.  The lay down position for riding didn't allow me to see either under my arm or over my shoulder.  At the mercy of the rear view mirrors. I sold it after a couple months.  But that's another story.

[BikeMan]

with around 60 hp on tap, 650's are just powerful enough to be fun for a solo rider, but add a passenger and / or luggage and they fall flat.  oh, they'll still haul you uphill, and accelerate you to freeway speeds; it just takes longer-plan your passes accordingly.  (pg 59 motorcyclist oct. 2012)

[cycleman]

Having just the DL650 I can't compare the performance end, but the DL650 is fine for 2 up and as others have noted, 2 up passing on 2 lane highways needs a bit more planning as you don't have the extra 30 hp grunt that the DL1000 has. Solo or just with the luggage travelling solo the 650 has more than enough power to get you into trouble.  I've always thought that it really just boils down to how much you are going to ride 2 up.  If you are always riding 2 up than the DL1000 makes more sense than the DL650.  I ride about 70-30 ( solo vs 2 up ) and can't afford 2 bikes for highway use, so the 650 works for us.  The only real areas that the lack of hp & torque show up is 2 up going up steep hills and passing.  Which makes sense.

My wife and I travelled in the 70's on a GS550 and camped so we had a fair load.  Compared to that bike the DL650 is more than adequate.

In some cases the difference in the two vstroms boils down to can you handle, what people think when you tell them it is just a 650.

[bobbyvstrom]

Put a "996" sticker on your Wee and nobody will know the difference, especially with the new Vees having a single muffler.  I've ridden with groups that had Wees and Vees, and I don't know the difference when we're riding.  (I have a Vee)  They don't seem to be working to keep up, at lease one-up.  There's a thread about this if you'd care to look it up.  Lots of guys tour with two people plus gear on the 650s.  I just enjoy having more of a hot rod, albeit not a real fast one, I realize.  Check out the comparison threads.  Lots of info there, including acceleration charts and such.  For what it's worth, 650s outsell 1000s by a wide margin.  Bob

[BikeMan]

the idle torque of the DL1 is sweet.  unlike the DL.650, no revving-slipping the clutch on take off is necessary on the DL1.  help make the DL1 a joy to ride.

[Bolzen]

They don't seem to be working to keep up, at lease one-up.

As far as nobody switches racing or hooligan mode, one can stay with the group on Yamaha Zuma.

[Skiwi]

I'm lucky enough to own a Wee and a Vee, here is my condensed opinion on where each shine.

Vee
Open road at 110kmph+
Two up
Panniers/cargo
Acceleration/passing (the goofy grin factor)
Engine braking


Wee
Oh so smooth
Nimble
Economical
One up, open road
Engine feels more comfortable at lower revs
Seating comfort

[marktbike]

Skiwi, I subscribe every single word of yours, even comparing the newest models of 650 and 1000 (of course the new 1000 is much smoother than the old Vee...).

[rambunkshuss]

I just sold off my 06 Vee and hopped on a 2012 dl650a with ABS.  I consider the 650 to be superior in most ways, but for two.  The upswept design of the gas tank side covers channels air up my arms and past my helmet, creating some noise.  The other inferiority?  The lack of real grunt from the wee lil motor.  It's perfectly adequate, but won't bring the grins like the Vee does.  I have solved most of the wind issues with a V-Stream Touring windshield, Rick's mirror extenders, and winglets at the sides of the headlight.  I also installed a top case and peg lowering kit from Rick's.  I still get some winds hitting my arms and shoulders because the V-Stream can't be too wide for knocking into the mirrors when the bars are turned.  The Wee engine is much smoother and the exhaust note is quiet and deep - just right.  I like the styling better as well and 50 MPG is way better than 40 MPG.  ABS is a no-brainer and the reason I sold my Vee.  The seat is more comfy and the riding position is just about perfect for me.  WE HAVE A WINNAH!