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Author Topic: TB sync pics for a DL1000  (Read 21175 times)
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johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
Former Member
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #30 on: 08/03/09 2236 Hours »
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Copied from other topic.

Anytime you get weird results for a TBS, there are three things you need to check. First for any vacuum leaks, on the bike & around your tool. Second is that you have sufficient throttle cable free play. Third is the throttle lever gap as below. If your TBS is close, like yours is, and your hot idle speed is around 1200, like it should be, then this gap should be there.



As far as the screw is concerned, hold the two parts of the linkage together, lightly, and screw it back in.

FYI: 8" of ATF is about 1" of Mercury.
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MPH
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09/15/06 2308 Hours
Posts: 43
DL1000K4
Gurnee, IL (Chicago)
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« REPLY #31 on: 08/07/09 1811 Hours »
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An update and a few comments:

1.  It is key to get the side tank cover removed (or at least _really_ far out of the way) and attack from in front of the frame angled part to simultaneously do 3 things: see what you're doing, have the tool (in my case, really long-nose pliers) on the screw, AND have room to move the tool/make an adjustment.

2.  The mechanics of this:  the throttle cables terminate at the rear TB, then there's a mechanical linkage to the front, and an adjustment which appears to affect only the front.  Tightening the screw rotates the front TB butterfly counterclockwise (as viewed from the right side) and since it is "down in front/up in the rear", a CCW rotation closes off the front TB.  In my case, the rear was pulling a harder vacuum, so the front was open more than the rear.  I had to close down the front in order to achieve balance.

3.  A small flatblade screwdriver can be inserted in the gap provided by the adjustment screw to simulate tightening the screw/closing off the front.  This can be useful in determining which direction to adjust once you get your initial reading.  Does this quick simulation make the balance better or worse?  If it makes it better, you know that tightening the screw/closing down the front TB butterfly is the needed direction.  If this simulation makes the balance worse, then the front TB butterfly is already too much closed, so loosen the screw which will rotate the front TB butterfly clockwise, opening it more, reducing vacuum.

Weird that I can't upload a .jpg, 'cause I wanted to show all y'all my result: 1/4" separation w/ ATF as the manometer fluid.  Yes, the tools were packed up, and the cold frosty was understatedly satisfying.

Cheers, Mark
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savvy
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06/15/07 2143 Hours
Posts: 51
K3 DL1000
pickering, ont, canada
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« REPLY #32 on: 02/28/10 0449 Hours »
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any idea what happened to some of the pics?   just about to hook up my vacuum tubes and some of the pics are missing.
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johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
Former Member
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
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SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #33 on: 02/28/10 1252 Hours »
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That's what happens when attached pics are not stored in our gallery and members, or past members in this case, change or edit there photo album.
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CanV
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02/04/07 1336 Hours
Posts: 57
DL1000 2006
Ladysmith BC Canada
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« REPLY #34 on: 04/28/10 2253 Hours »
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There has been a lot of cursing the vacuum hose bibs on the throttle bodies of the DL1000. Specifically accessing them to put on extensions.
Similarly, there has been the observation that either the front or rear throttle body is either loose, or ill-fitting in its boot.

I didn't look forward to attaching the 5/32" hoses during my recent valve adjustment but here is what I did.

After seeing the almost impossible access to the hose bibs, I unscrewed the boots for the throttle bodies, and limited them out and turned them over. Then I easily took off the caps, attached the new extension lines, and re-fitted the throttle bodies. They clicked right into their boots, I reattached the clamps, tightened them and routed the lines as suggested.

All in all it took less than 10 mins.

Hope this helps avoid the angst alot of people have experienced.
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thjakits
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12/07/10 0036 Hours
Posts: 77

DL1000K8
Panama
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« REPLY #35 on: 04/26/11 2334 Hours »
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Okay - ready for the next check!

After installing my "Sharelike"-ed clutch, I filled the donk with BEL RAY EXS 4T 10W-50 (....what I got locally - full synth, + a Suzuki oilfilter), CAT EC-1 ELC 50/50 premix, checked the fuel flow (800ml in 30 sec), adjusted the Secondaries (caliper measure from top - the #1-front was 1 mm off, I believe this is a lot??), "manufactured" a extended fuel-line with a T for a manometer (to check fuel-pressure) and I am about to finish "my version" off the hyper-acurate homemade manometer for TBS.

Question: The OEM manual suggest to take off the tank and airfilter. If I extend the vacuum ports - and hopefully can reach the adjustment screw from the right side - would it be okay to synchronize with the airfilter and tank on??
I understand that the intake vacuum will be higher as the engine now breaths through the airfilter (which was also changed - back to a fresh OEM from a dirty K&N....)
The extensions would be from 1/4 vinyl hose (drip irrigation supplies), capped off with a double connector and then nipple covers back on.
I intend to use equal length pieces and just lead them out the right side.....

I will have to warm up the engine on the centerstand as there are a lot of pieces off the bike right now (... going through it from front to rear and installing farkles as I go - Smiley - hope to start a thread on it soon...) - I will check idle rpm, and throttle lever gap.

Wouldn't it be better to synch as close to real live conditions as possible? (Filter ON)

I appreciate your replies!!
(This time subscribed for immediate notification!  :Smiley )

thjakits  Cool

'08 DL1000 (with farkles....)
'79 R100S (waiting for THE overhaul)
'88 R100GS (parts collection)
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johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
Former Member
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #36 on: 04/26/11 2345 Hours »
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OK with tank & airbox on, but you will need a pair of long needle nose pliers for the screw.

Use real vacuum line for your extensions. 1/8" is best but can get by with 5/32".

800ml is getting toward the low side. You will probably need to do something about it soon.
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thjakits
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12/07/10 0036 Hours
Posts: 77

DL1000K8
Panama
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« REPLY #37 on: 04/27/11 0012 Hours »
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"800ml is getting toward the low side. You will probably need to do something about it soon."

...that's in 30 sec.

OEM manual wants 1200 ml in 60 sec...


??

thjakits Huh?
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johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
Former Member
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #38 on: 04/27/11 0151 Hours »
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Don't believe everything you read. The spec is really 1200ml in 30 seconds. Trouble usually starts being felt around 650-700ml in 30.
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“Most of the stuff people worry about, ain't never gonna happen anyway.” 

  Get your flags
thjakits
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12/07/10 0036 Hours
Posts: 77

DL1000K8
Panama
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« REPLY #39 on: 04/27/11 0206 Hours »
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okay.

then next thing to order is filter, fuel line and clamps.

thjakits
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rkjjeep
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03/03/12 1232 Hours
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« REPLY #40 on: 03/12/12 0135 Hours »
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Did the the first TBS on my 09 tonight.  Has about 4400 miles and ran pretty well anyway.

Took some plastic off the right side and was able to maneuver around from each side of the bike and get thumb and opposing index finger on caps to pull them off.  Same for hose insertion -  removing the caps and installing the hoses took about two minutes.  Just keep looking and thinking about which hand can get in there to grasp with thumb and finger.  I should say I have average to small hands.

Used the same ATF sticks that I use on the airhead BMW.  Was only off about 2" of ATF.  I was able to get my right hand into the opening to grasp the screw with..........you guessed it........thumb and index finger.  Lots of back and forth very minute amounts and got it dead nuts even after multiple throttle blips.

Does run smoother and maybe a little quieter.  I'm guessing this will be an annual check and adjustment if necessary.

I also removed and plugged the vacuum hose that actuates the PAIR valve.  Seems a little quieter - i never did have the decel popping but a little idle popcorn noise is gone.

The bike runs better than many of the threads I've read for a stock bike.  Maybe I shouldn't read so much!

Cheers, and ride safely!
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bobbyvstrom
Bob the ridin' Realtor
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07/05/07 0746 Hours
Posts: 831
DL1000K6
Bremerton, Washington
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« REPLY #41 on: 05/30/12 0234 Hours »
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I got in a hurry yesterday and moved the adjustment screw a little too far with a stubby screwdriver due to impatience.  It will suck the ATF out of the hose in about 4 seconds if you move the screw too far.  Finally got it to within about 1/2 inch, or 1 CM.  I was using the $4.00 sync tool (hunk of wood with clear tubing wrapped around it, about 3' long)  Smoky exhaust for a bit, then all OK.  It was about 14" out of sync to begin with, running poorly at low RPM.  Now runs great.  Bobby
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Bobby
Used to ride: 1955 Doodlebug scooter, '59 Ducati "Bronco" 85, '60s Allstate (Puch) 175, '60s Yamaha YDS-1 250, '71 Honda SL 350, '70 Maico w/ Honda SL 350 power, late '80s Yamaha Seca 750, '89 Yamaha FJ 1200, '70s Yamaha TT 500 and an '06 KTM 450 EXC.  Now ride a  Beautiful Red DL 1000 K6.
a-gally
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06/30/13 1321 Hours
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« REPLY #42 on: 10/08/13 2027 Hours »
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Help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've extended the vacum hoses (no leaks) warmed up the engine, conected my manometer started the engine and it just sucks the ATF straight away to the front TB no matter what way I adjust the set screw and I have to kill the engine before the ATF gets into the TB

Bike is 2003 and I suspect the TBS has never been done before

All help very welcome
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WhiteManFlail
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08/16/12 0400 Hours
Posts: 60

DL1000 K7
St Louis, Missouri
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« REPLY #43 on: 10/08/13 2050 Hours »
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Help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've extended the vacum hoses (no leaks) warmed up the engine, conected my manometer started the engine and it just sucks the ATF straight away to the front TB no matter what way I adjust the set screw and I have to kill the engine before the ATF gets into the TB

Bike is 2003 and I suspect the TBS has never been done before

All help very welcome

Try a thicker fluid.  It'll slow the process down.  Once you can slow the process down, I blip the throttle and wait to see where the fluid settles before making another adjustment.
« Last Edit: 10/08/13 2052 Hours by WhiteManFlail » Logged

** '07 DL1000 K7 **
Good Decisions come from Knowledge, Knowledge comes from Experience, Experience comes from Bad Decisions.
bobbyvstrom
Bob the ridin' Realtor
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07/05/07 0746 Hours
Posts: 831
DL1000K6
Bremerton, Washington
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« REPLY #44 on: 10/09/13 0428 Hours »
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Good idea using thicker fluid.  You can also restrict the hose some using a clamp or some type to slow down the process.  That screw usually is only turned a few degrees, if even that much.  It's a tiny adjustment.  Bobby
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Bobby
Used to ride: 1955 Doodlebug scooter, '59 Ducati "Bronco" 85, '60s Allstate (Puch) 175, '60s Yamaha YDS-1 250, '71 Honda SL 350, '70 Maico w/ Honda SL 350 power, late '80s Yamaha Seca 750, '89 Yamaha FJ 1200, '70s Yamaha TT 500 and an '06 KTM 450 EXC.  Now ride a  Beautiful Red DL 1000 K6.
a-gally
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06/30/13 1321 Hours
Posts: 8
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« REPLY #45 on: 10/09/13 1127 Hours »
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I have pinched the pipe to restrict the rate of flow and twisted the adjustment screw from top of thre thread to the bottom and still the same result, I am now thinking I must have a leak on a rubber carb boot or some thing like that , that is lowering the vacum of the rear carb Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?

CONFUSED

Thanks for the replys chaps
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bobbyvstrom
Bob the ridin' Realtor
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07/05/07 0746 Hours
Posts: 831
DL1000K6
Bremerton, Washington
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« REPLY #46 on: 10/09/13 1947 Hours »
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You may want to double check to ensure you connected both front and rear tubes to the correct spot.  A leak in a tube would be a problem, too.
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Bobby
Used to ride: 1955 Doodlebug scooter, '59 Ducati "Bronco" 85, '60s Allstate (Puch) 175, '60s Yamaha YDS-1 250, '71 Honda SL 350, '70 Maico w/ Honda SL 350 power, late '80s Yamaha Seca 750, '89 Yamaha FJ 1200, '70s Yamaha TT 500 and an '06 KTM 450 EXC.  Now ride a  Beautiful Red DL 1000 K6.
a-gally
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06/30/13 1321 Hours
Posts: 8
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« REPLY #47 on: 10/10/13 1802 Hours »
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Now I am pulling out what little hair I have left

Ive checked and double checked the air box boots, pipes for leaks etc but still the same result, the front carb vacum seems to be much stronger than the rear and within a couple of seconds of starting the engine the fluid in the manometer shoots up the tube towards the front carb no matter what way i turn the adjustment screw
When I squeeze the pipes I can feel the pulsing vacum from both carbs

Help
not much hair left !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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WhiteManFlail
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08/16/12 0400 Hours
Posts: 60

DL1000 K7
St Louis, Missouri
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« REPLY #48 on: 10/10/13 1813 Hours »
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I'm not sure how or if this would affect the vacuum difference but do you have a little slack in your throttle grip?  I'm wondering if your throttle cables are too tight and not allowing the grip to return the bike to idle.
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** '07 DL1000 K7 **
Good Decisions come from Knowledge, Knowledge comes from Experience, Experience comes from Bad Decisions.
johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
Former Member
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #49 on: 10/10/13 1909 Hours »
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Get a vacuum Gage and see how the cylinders match up.

If all else fails, run a compression check to see there condition.
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a-gally
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06/30/13 1321 Hours
Posts: 8
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« REPLY #50 on: 10/10/13 2050 Hours »
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Took your advice and got a mates vacum guage

Front carb pulling 20
Back carb pulling  27

I dont know what kind of scale this is but theres 7 between them, will have ago at adjusting them tomorrow (need my long nosed pliers) will post the results.

Thanks for the help
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