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Author Topic: External Fuel Filter modification  (Read 105106 times)
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realshelby
***
09/28/09 1955 Hours
Posts: 496

'12 '04 Wee, '03 Vee
Houston, Tx
Online
« REPLY #150 on: 05/19/11 2133 Hours »
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Talking to the parts counter persons at Auto Zone, Advance, and to only a slightly lesser degree NAPA and O'Reillys is about as worthless as tits on a Boar Hog. I hate to be that blunt but it has come to that. No one wants to pay for quality employees at these places. Most of the employees couldn't guess what to say to a customer if it doesn't come up on their screen. I have even given them the part numbers and they would argue with me trying to get the "application" instead of just looking up the #. End of Rant...

The NAPA 3023 works quite well at 43 psi. I don't care what it is rated for, I haven't heard of any problems with it. As for the barbs vs bolt on, I don't know of a single bolt on fuel filter on a Ford vehicle with fuel injection. All I am familiar with have the spring loaded style which is wonderful.

DO get the proper fuel injection rated rubber hose. And get a clean towel to wipe your tears away when you price it. DO get the proper fuel injection rated clamps. All will be well......
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AL-n2it
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06/26/10 1416 Hours
Posts: 6
DL1000-K4
Santa Maria, CA
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« REPLY #151 on: 05/21/11 1532 Hours »
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Before I installed the Wix 33095, I researched a few other Wix filters.

One of them was 33033, which is listed on the Wix site as a burst pressure of 60 PSI, but a micron rating of only 20. It has the same design as the 33095 but is larger. I doubt Wix uses a different manufacturing process for the two different filters.

I have had two of these on my bike now. After about 8000 miles no signs on leaking.


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richw
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03/11/10 2115 Hours
Posts: 603
DL1000K6
Baltic, Conn. USA
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« REPLY #152 on: 05/21/11 1856 Hours »
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Holley, Earl's, Jegs all have small high pressure fuel filters down to 10 microns with replaceable elements or 20 micron screens

Those listed above are really for carbureted low pressure fuel systems

I am sure they are fine until China decides to use thinner metal next time.
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jeeves
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11/14/07 1356 Hours
Posts: 29

KLV1000 K4
Dubrovnik Croatia
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« REPLY #153 on: 06/01/11 2001 Hours »
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I detailed over here http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,6564.msg154471.html a problem I had  a few weeks ago when the DL1000 died on me. To sum up, I checked fuel flow first (since I'd only recently done the fuel filter mod) and it was OK. Then I suspected TPS since I'd had that problem before - although this seemed more severe than last time.

Had to get the bike hauled home (first time that's happened to me since 1982!), finally digging into it now.

SO this is what I found when I pulled the fuel pump. As I was jiggling it to remove, something fell off inside the tank... hmmm...

Once I'd drained the tank to retrieve the bits that had fallen off the pump, it became pretty obvious why the bike wouldn't run. The fuel filter had come loose from the body of the pump; shown here, no. 5. Hard to believe they charge over $250 for this part!

Now I have 3 questions to ask myself.

- Did I knock it off when removing the pump? (unlikely, IIRC that fat o-ring made it difficult to remove last time)
- Did I not attach the clips properly last time I reassembled? (possibly, in which case I can put it back together - properly this time - and all will be well)
- Did the new inline filter create some kind of backpressure in the fuel pump that caused the filter to pop out (I'd done over 1000 miles with the fuel filter mod before this happened)

As I see it I can just put back together as it is and hope the problem doesn't recur. OR... I have another option, and that is to take the sender unit from the DL pump and install on this GSXR600 pump that I happen to have laying around. That's supposed to work, according to this old Stromette post
http://www.stromtrooper.com/ride-reports-route-sheets/5099-stromettes-travels-31.html


thanks!

Trevor








The exact same thing happened to me a few days ago.
I was coming back home from a trip to Slovenia and about 70km from home I felt a hick-up, followed by another, and then my KLV stared losing power. We stopped shortly after that and my bike was barely idling.
First I thought my TPS was acting up again, but the symptoms were different.

The pump was working when given contact, but the sound was strange. It sounded like there was air being moved around with the fuel.

I took the fuel line off the pump, and fuel stared dribbling out and it wouldn't stop.
The first thing I thought about was this post from dcstrom. I didn't try to fix it,wasn't 100% sure that it was the problem, so I played it safe and called up a friend to come with his van and haul me home (really bad feeling... Embarrassed )


Today I took the fuel pump off, and yes, the clamp holding the fuel pressure regulator had come off.


I did the external fuel filter modification in January, and have done almost 7000km until now. Why did this it happen now and not much sooner???
Does the external filter has something to do with this?
Since the external filter modification the fuel pump sound was not always the same, but the bike ran fine. I even opened up the external filter up to see how it looks inside, but it seems to be OK. 

I put the regulator back in, and put the clamp on, but it doesn't seem to be a tight fit over the regulator  Huh?





external fuel filter


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johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #154 on: 06/02/11 1938 Hours »
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Did you remove the regulator when you did the external mod?
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jeeves
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11/14/07 1356 Hours
Posts: 29

KLV1000 K4
Dubrovnik Croatia
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« REPLY #155 on: 06/02/11 1952 Hours »
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Did you remove the regulator when you did the external mod?

Yes, and I changed the o-ring on in.
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johnofchar
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
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SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #156 on: 06/02/11 2052 Hours »
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The proper o-ring is a very tight fit. I can't guess why it came apart if assembled correctly.

For future reference, the regulator does not have to be removed to do this mod.
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pinkman
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06/24/06 1706 Hours
Posts: 210

DL1000 K4
Clermont, FL USA
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« REPLY #157 on: 06/03/11 2131 Hours »
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A big thanks to Silko, John and the other posters in this thread. Thumbs Up My local shop did the modification for me this week (living without a garage has its drawbacks). The pictures and commentary made it easy for me to explain the process. After they drilled the hole the mechanic said that he was amazed at the amount of junk that flowed out of the filter. He flushed it several times, but I'm sure I'll be replacing the external filter before too long. With the new mounting (under the frame rail as shown in one the thread pictures) this should be a 5 minute job.

My bike's details:
2004 DL1000 purchased new in late 2006
54,000 miles
NAPA 3095 filter
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Greg "Pinkman" Pink
www.pinkman.org
Guitar_Ranch
**
06/10/08 1543 Hours
Posts: 35
DL1000K4
Tweed, Ontario Canada
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« REPLY #158 on: 06/22/11 0200 Hours »
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I gotta thank you guys for all the great material assembled here. I never fail to find the accurate descriptions of my troubles and terrific money and time saving solutions.

I tried the NAPA dealer up here in Canada for the part numbers listed and they weren't good part codes in his computer. He sold me a NAPA Proselect FG986. The standard size hose fits perfectly and with the clamps everything came in under $25 with 3 feet of line.

Interestingly this all came about because I thought the PCIII I had installed a week earlier was either faulty, had a bad map or transfer. I went through the typical removal, reinstall and reprogram with no progress then just ran it stock. The problem never left and the whistling sound from the tank was constant and loud at any RPM.
That's what brought me here.

thanks everyone.
pk
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Castaway
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08/28/10 0020 Hours
Posts: 97
DL1000K3
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« REPLY #159 on: 07/06/11 1854 Hours »
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Update:

I put the Purolator F29160 on a few months back, and I have had leaks from one end of the filter or the other since. I've tightened both FI clamps to completely cinched, but I still get a leak. Oddly, it's not a continuous leak - it seems to happen for a short period after startup. It's got me thinking that the 29160 filter doesn't have a high enough flow rate. I just spoke with a Purolator engineer and he said that the tested rate is 45 liters/hour (how does that translate to psi?). He was very touchy about the difference between 'tested rate' vs 'in-use rate' - I guess it's a liability thing: all the reps (in-store, on phone) are geared to matching filter to vehicle, not about what the filter could be used for (I have similar sentiments to shelby above.).

Anyway, I'm still trying to solve this leaking problem. The engineer suggested I try filter F65277 - it's bigger than the 29160 and it uses quick connects instead of hose clamps. I check out the recent suggestions above, too.

Fortunately, the bike has not stopped running or gone up in flames, it's a nagging, unresolved problem.
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Castaway
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08/28/10 0020 Hours
Posts: 97
DL1000K3
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« REPLY #160 on: 07/06/11 1859 Hours »
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Before I installed the Wix 33095, I researched a few other Wix filters.

One of them was 33033, which is listed on the Wix site as a burst pressure of 60 PSI, but a micron rating of only 20. It has the same design as the 33095 but is larger. I doubt Wix uses a different manufacturing process for the two different filters.

I have had two of these on my bike now. After about 8000 miles no signs on leaking.





Al-n2it, can you clarify which filter it is that you're having success with? The 33033, or the larger 33095?

Thanks
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johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
Former Member
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #161 on: 07/06/11 2115 Hours »
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I just spoke with a Purolator engineer and he said that the tested rate is 45 liters/hour (how does that translate to psi?).
There is no translation, different animals. But 45 liters/hour should be plenty good enough. I would suspect your fuel line ID might be to large for your filter.
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Castaway
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08/28/10 0020 Hours
Posts: 97
DL1000K3
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« REPLY #162 on: 07/06/11 2152 Hours »
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There is no translation, different animals. But 45 liters/hour should be plenty good enough. I would suspect your fuel line ID might be to large for your filter.

I thought about that too, and checked at the store to see if the next size down would fit better, but I couldn't even get it (1/4" ID) over the bulge in the filter stems. 
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johnofchar
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
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SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #163 on: 07/06/11 2335 Hours »
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I thought about that too, and checked at the store to see if the next size down would fit better, but I couldn't even get it (1/4" ID) over the bulge in the filter stems. 
Your using FI fuel line & FI clamps?
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Castaway
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08/28/10 0020 Hours
Posts: 97
DL1000K3
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« REPLY #164 on: 07/07/11 0020 Hours »
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Yep
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johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #165 on: 07/07/11 1221 Hours »
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Do you have a photo of your setup?
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Castaway
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08/28/10 0020 Hours
Posts: 97
DL1000K3
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« REPLY #166 on: 07/07/11 1345 Hours »
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Do you have a photo of your setup?

I'll shoot one when I get in there to check it out.
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Castaway
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08/28/10 0020 Hours
Posts: 97
DL1000K3
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« REPLY #167 on: 07/14/11 1709 Hours »
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Okay, it's looking like my hose clamps were 1mm too large. I discovered that the ones I had on are 14–16mm clamps, and the replacements I put on are 13–15mm (the size is stamped on the clamp - I'd like to think that the manufacturer screwed up when packaging them, but I probably screwed up when purchasing  Wall  ).

So far no leaks, but the previous leaks took a few rides to appear, so I'm holding off on final judgement.
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crazyhorse
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12/04/09 1550 Hours
Posts: 21
K7 1000
St. Albans, UK
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« REPLY #168 on: 07/28/11 1427 Hours »
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Hi to all

Have been keeping an eye on this thread since the springtime, and would like some advice, about my Vee.

Checking the fuel flow in the spring, using the ignition on three times and measuring the output, and at that time I got 260ml.
Checked again a month ago, and this afernoon and both times it was 250ml.
I think the manual says I should be getting double that amount.

Is time to get my hands really grubby, as I am about to do a big service, to consider putting in an external filter!

Must point out that the bike seems to be running well, but a little rough beyond 6k revs.

Regards
Crazyhorse
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Preload
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04/30/05 0723 Hours
Posts: 2822

DL650K5 Poverty model
North East UK
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« REPLY #169 on: 07/28/11 1755 Hours »
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Hi to all

Have been keeping an eye on this thread since the springtime, and would like some advice, about my Vee.

Checking the fuel flow in the spring, using the ignition on three times and measuring the output, and at that time I got 260ml.
Checked again a month ago, and this afernoon and both times it was 250ml.
I think the manual says I should be getting double that amount.

Is time to get my hands really grubby, as I am about to do a big service, to consider putting in an external filter!

Must point out that the bike seems to be running well, but a little rough beyond 6k revs.

Regards
Crazyhorse


See here As John said, something is a miss. Definately worth checking it out at service time.
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I'd normally be in the garage around now.
johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #170 on: 07/28/11 2129 Hours »
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It's not going to get better, so time to fix!
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CaptRon
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09/09/07 0708 Hours
Posts: 15
Los Gatos, CA
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« REPLY #171 on: 07/29/11 0114 Hours »
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Hello All.
 I did the external fuel filter mod awhile back. I used the 33033 filter. I have done 25K mi since doing the mod with no problems. I used regular worm type clamps, fuel injection hose and it has been a great mod for my bike. The pump runs with less stress compared to before the mod. My bike is at 75K mi and I plan to ride it til it quits. It's a 2005 1K that I bought in Feb 08 with 8K mi on the ODO. Ron
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crazyhorse
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12/04/09 1550 Hours
Posts: 21
K7 1000
St. Albans, UK
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« REPLY #172 on: 08/18/11 1431 Hours »
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Hi

With reference to my earlier request for information (see reply 168) I have just completed the external fuel filter, using a Golan filter sourced in the UK.

The amount of fuel that now appears using the ignition three times on method, has risen from 260ml to 340ml. Not a great improvement I know, but it was well worth doing, as I was amazed at the amount of dirt/silt in the bottom/sump of the pumps body.
Also, the amount of dirt in suspension, that appeared when I finally drilled through, and flushed a fair bit out after this initial flow.
I would post a picture, if I find how to do so.
The fuel tank was quite clear of rust, and other debris, so can only assume that the dirt/silt comes with the fuel from the garages.

Thanks to all for their help and encouragement in this process.

Regards
Crazyhorse
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johnofchar
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SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #173 on: 08/18/11 2003 Hours »
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Try here for pics: http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/board,1.0.html
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crazyhorse
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12/04/09 1550 Hours
Posts: 21
K7 1000
St. Albans, UK
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« REPLY #174 on: 08/19/11 1537 Hours »
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Hi

After much juggling and advice from a PIA who knows about putting pictures in forums, the following pictures should appear.

This first one is showing, below the coin, debris from the 'sump of the pump', and above the coin, what was removed from the low presure filter. The coin is a UK 10p piece, which is equiv. in size to a quarter.



This image is of the rubbish in the sump. I assumed the red cross hatched mat, is a Suzuki means of containing the larger particles.



This third image is the low pressure fuel filter, and the crap that was attached to it.



Another view of the low pressure filter.



Just returned from the first ride out after this mod, and I can definitely say there is an improvement, not the great leap to perfectiion, but enough to feel the difference.
I expect that each time I clean the air filter, I will make the effort and remove the air box to access the Golan filter, and clean it. A bit more to add to the maintenance regimen. Not a problem though!

Really glad to get this done at this time as on the 1st Sept, I am off to France/Spain and Portugal for three weeks, so only thing to do now is to replace the worn Conti Trail Attack with another one, and I'm all set.

Mileage is at 22670, so still a baby compared to all you mileage munchers!

Good health, and thanks again for the assistance.

Regards
Crazyhorse







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crazyhorse
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12/04/09 1550 Hours
Posts: 21
K7 1000
St. Albans, UK
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« REPLY #175 on: 08/19/11 1907 Hours »
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Hi

Looking at my previous post, I noticed that it might come across that the PIA I mentioned, could have been construed as our Admin, this is not true.
The real PIA that I talked about was 'know it all' teenager, who was leaning over my shoulder giving me 'advice', at the time.

Regards
Crazyhorse
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04/30/05 0723 Hours
Posts: 2822

DL650K5 Poverty model
North East UK
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« REPLY #176 on: 08/19/11 2107 Hours »
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Hi

Looking at my previous post, I noticed that it might come across that the PIA I mentioned, could have been construed as our Admin, this is not true.
The real PIA that I talked about was 'know it all' teenager, who was leaning over my shoulder giving me 'advice', at the time.

Regards
Crazyhorse

LMAO  Grin

Thanks for the pics and write up, not to mention the all important mileage log. At 22600 miles I am surprised to see that amount in there.

There's a lesson here for us UK folks, next time your going under the tank, get the fuel pump out and start to clean at least what you can. Even if you don't want to do the fuel filter mod. Don't ignore the issue until it becomes a one  Thumbs Up
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Lessons learned; When there's only two left, wait till you receive yours before letting a buddy in on the deal ; )
I'd normally be in the garage around now.
srileo
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10/16/09 2143 Hours
Posts: 12
05 Wee
San Francisco
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« REPLY #177 on: 09/01/11 1722 Hours »
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Ok, i am the only disbeliever here. Or, rather, the the disillusioned one.

Bike is at 56k. I did the bypass surgery on external filter at 3k miles ago and to no avail. Bike still hiccups at speeds after about 2-3 hours of straight running. seems more on a hot/humid day. At this point, i am thinking of just springing for a new fuel pump $800 almost (OUCH!!) or a second hand one. I hear about the GSXR600 pump being swappable. Is that the pump alone or is it the filters as well? I'd like to replace the whole unit at one go.

Ofcourse, my luck being what it is these days, it might turn out to be something altogether different...

Shridhar
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Preload
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04/30/05 0723 Hours
Posts: 2822

DL650K5 Poverty model
North East UK
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« REPLY #178 on: 09/01/11 1736 Hours »
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Srileo, before you go on a spending spree check this out first. If it all proves good then not the pump and maybe start to look elsewhere for the issues.

PS update your profile so we know what bike / model your talking about too  Thumbs Up
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Lessons learned; When there's only two left, wait till you receive yours before letting a buddy in on the deal ; )
I'd normally be in the garage around now.
johnofchar
Former VSRI Administrator
Former Member
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10/19/03 1511 Hours
Posts: 12035

SV-Strom & K9 ABS Wee
Charleston SC USA
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« REPLY #179 on: 09/01/11 2002 Hours »
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Ok, i am the only disbeliever here. Or, rather, the the disillusioned one.

Bike is at 56k. I did the bypass surgery on external filter at 3k miles ago and to no avail. Bike still hiccups at speeds after about 2-3 hours of straight running. seems more on a hot/humid day. At this point, i am thinking of just springing for a new fuel pump $800 almost (OUCH!!) or a second hand one. I hear about the GSXR600 pump being swappable. Is that the pump alone or is it the filters as well? I'd like to replace the whole unit at one go.

Ofcourse, my luck being what it is these days, it might turn out to be something altogether different...

Shridhar

Can you explain a bit about your problem in more detail? Both before you did the mod and now. From what you wrote it doesn't sound like a fuel pump problem.

Also need to know which bike you have.

Info: Just the GSX pump & not the entire unit.
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